Westministenders: Reality Bytes

[RedToothBrush]

Tonight the Corbyn and McDonnell Labour Party supported the Tory Party in improving the tax allowance for higher rate tax payers.

Yes you read that right. Did you even blink?

You've been so conditioned into seeing non existant opposition which seems to go against everything the Labour Party stand for that you no longer are shocked.

That's what 2 and a half years of Brexit has done to you.

You no longer care that Boris Johnson got £14,000 from the Saudis a couple of days before the Khashoggi murder. You know longer care that the former Defence Secretary is employed for £75,000 a year to advise a major Saudi Investor.

You are just happy that Trump hasn't started a war with Iran or North Korea yet. And hasn't started a civil war. (Though he's trying hard and next week is his best opportunity to stir it all up). You aren't surprised to hear that predictions are that the Democrats will fail to make gains in the mid terms.

You've suffered the 4657 story about how Therea May is just about to be challenged for the leadership.

You've heard about the squad set up at the Home Office to clear up all the cases the media get their hands on as the latest burning injustice. You are hearing that EU nationals who have been promised they are 'safe' are being subjected to questions about their right to stay. And you just shrug and say, "Yeah well thats the Home Office for you. The Bastards". And you do mean it, but you are so jaded by it all. And you worry that another 12 months from now, you won't even be interested in another story like that, and the press will stop printing them as they no longer interest the reader. What happens to your friends, your family, or even you then? Who is going to care then?

And then you have today.

A day where you hear that Bannon is being investigated by the Senate Intel Committee, Farage has been upgraded to the FBI's Really Naughty List and Banks has (FINALLY) been refered to the NCA. (We were only speculating on the possibility, on the 26th March...)

And you go 'Ooooooooo maybe there is hope'.

Maybe we COULD remain in the EU and avoid Turnip Soup and wiping your arse with leaves because of the national bog roll shortage. Or at least get a decent deal which suits us as a nation. Maybe, just maybe!

And that lasts for about 2 minutes before you log into twitter and the very first thing you see this:

Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn
Excl: David Cameron tells friends he’d like a return to frontline politics, and fancies Foreign Secretary
www.thesun.co.uk/news/7639377/david-cameron-return-to-politics/

And you let out a high pitched screech as if you are were a dying cat as you remember this is 2018, and it just wants to beat the life out of you.

On the plus side, it shows you do still care enough to think 'Don't let that fucking bastard anywhere near power ever, ever again.'.

Ho hum.

Keep on, keeping on. Don't let the bastards win.
Keep caring. It matters.

I may disagree with several pp though:

When May ruled out Norway+, imo she drew up the death warrant for the UK as a union of 4
within the next 1-2 decades.

If she goes through with any other kind of Brexit, then she has signed the death warrant

Therefore, for me, it is a case of choosing the least bitter & bloody way to breakup
The chaos and economic recession of a No Deal Brexit would be the worst circumstances:

According to RNorth & Ultra economist Prof Mitford:
. No farming exports for 6 months+ and then the collapse of UK farming & agriculture
. The collapse of British manufacturing

That's 8% of the UK workforce looking for new jobs, to start with

This debate reminds me of one that has often come up on MN:

If a fantastic opportunity comes up for one child, e.g. a posh public school bursary, do you let the child take it up,
if they have siblings who didn't manage to win a bursary

Yes, it is important to remember there are already checks on... people - between NI and Britain.

I don't think so? There are rudimentary ID checks if you're flying, but that's the same as between Manchester and London. What other checks are there?

there are already checks on livestock - and people - between NI and Britain

I can't comment on livestock, but have travelled between NI and Britain several times recently, and fwiw the checks for the sea crossing seemed non-existent. On booking I had to give the ferry company a list of the names of the passengers, but no ID was required, and no checks were made when we boarded. I formed the impression that the information was only needed to ensure that we'd paid for the right number of people in our car.

I did need photo ID for my flights to and from, although again these were scarcely glanced at.

At some point a lot of 'steam' needs to be released from this whole episode, taking it back to the 'acquisition' of part of the Island of Ireland, maybe further back still, and all points between. So many are unhappy about various aspects that the UK is not entirely happy with itself and there needs to be a form of resolution to that before it can move forward.

I think the ports particularly obtain 'ID' information in the background.
I live in France and have a French car and turning up at a French ferry port was greeted in English, the nice lady spoke first so no obvious statement from me that I am English.
I would expect the NI/Britain crossing will be deliberately as 'low key' security as possible on 'political' grounds to maintain the illusion that NI is just another area of the UK, like popping over the border into Scotland.
Thinking about this, I think it was BCF who unearthed a piece about the UK security having made millions of 'security check enquiries' from the EU system, and it represented the whole of the UK population about 2 enquiries a year.

The checks on livestock became particularly noticeable after BSE,

• when Ian Paisley Snr kept saying "It's Irish beef" - having his cake & eating it.

but they have been very extensive for many years, to protect NI from importing various diseases & pests from Britain

https://www.daera-ni.gov.uk/articles/introduction-importing-animals-and-animal-products

Imports of animals from Great Britain

Why do we have import controls?
There are controls on bringing livestock into Northern Ireland to try to protect the health of the animals already in the province,

and also the health of people, because some animal diseases can be passed from animals to humans.

DARD uses legislation to control imports, and the main tools that it uses for imports from GB are import licences.
These licences state what conditions must be met so that animals can be imported, and you must comply with all of them.

There are two types of licence:

General licences
These are not specific to individual importers and remain continuously valid until revoked due to, for example a disease outbreak and can be used for multiple consignments. There is no requirement to apply in writing.

Specific licences
These are issued to a particular importer for a particular consignment. The usually remain valid for 21 days but can only be used for a single consignment. The importer must apply in writing for a licence prior to importing the animals.

You need to think carefully before importing – importing animals can also import disease!

What diseases are we worried about?
We are concerned about diseases on three different levels:
• preventing the introduction of major exotic diseases, like foot and mouth disease, Avian Influenza, Classical Swine Fever and bluetongue
• preventing the introduction of other diseases which are not present in Northern Ireland such as Maedi Visna
• preventing the further spread of common diseases, like Bovine Brucellosis, Bovine Tuberculosis, Scrapie and ringworm

What types of animals are covered here?
• breeding animals means animals brought in for breeding purposes, e.g. dairy heifers, bulls, ewes
• production animals to be kept for further fattening before slaughter, e.g. stores (bullocks, beef heifers)
• direct Slaughter animals which are those licensed to move directly to slaughter plants
• ornamental Fowl attending shows in Northern Ireland

Livestock imports
What do I need to do to import cattle sheep, goats, and pigs?
Cattle, sheep, goats and pigs can only be imported in accordance with a Specific Import Licence.

I think the ports particularly obtain 'ID' information in the background

Difficult in the case of NI - it's been a while but last time I went you could turn up and pay there and then with no ID check. The whole point is that it's part of the UK - it's no different to getting a ferry from Oban to Mull. Presumably the security services used to take an interest in who was coming and going but I think (?) that's long-gone, except for targeted operations.

Even on the Dublin to Holyhead service I've crossed with only a utility bill as ID, no problems at all. I heard a while back that they've tightened things up a bit now but I was still able to just vaguely wave my driving licence at them last time I went.

Mother re the child who didn't pass grammar, that is exactly the approach I want to take:

Take all the measures you can to make it up to the child,
but don't forbid their siblings from going to Grammar, or take them out of Grammar if they were already there.

The CTA would mean the freedom of travel of people between the RoI and NI should theoretically not be affected, just goods.

In practice, if the UK decided furrin folk were sneaking in by care through the open back door ....

{I think that would be preferable for me rather than have us divided up on the say so NOT of Europe but our own government}
Europe is not saying the UK has to be split up. It is the UK government with the idea of Brexit that is forcing the issue. Trading OUT of the EU HAS to have a trade border, whether it is EU or WTO rules. Of course one of the UK stated aims is to take control of it's borders so it has said it has to have a border. Ireland is in the EU, the UK won't be so by everyone's description there must be a border.
The UK caused this mess, it is for the UK to sort it out.

But in this case I feel it is more that all of the siblings are being taken out of the Grammar, two have said they okay with that, two dont want to go. One of them is making life so difficult of parents with threats of really bad behaviour so they are being allowed to go part time.
I don't blame NI for getting the best deal from the UK government that it can but emotionally it feels like a reward for bad behaviour.

afaik, no other country in the UK has these kind of livestock controls between itself and rUK, only NI

afaik, no other country in the UK has these kind of livestock controls between itself and rUK, only NI

Does the RoI ship livestock to the UK in any other way than across the border to NI ?

plaid It isn't just the Troubles that make NI unique:

• It's the only country in the UK where nearly half the population want to join another EU country and will likely become the majority in 1-2 decades

• It's the only country with an international treaty requiring the UK to work with another EU country
  and constraining what the UK govt can do, defining what it cannot do.
  The GFA made the UK give up a big chunk of sovereignty over NI

NI legally became different to any other part of the UK the minute the GFA was signed

• it's why the DUP hated it from the go and now are trying to use Brexit as a last chance to wreck it, before Catholics become a majority

{Anyway - we are never going to agree.}
On or around 29 March 2019 an agreement must be found.
Yes traveling NI/Britain is supposed to look and feel similar to traveling to any other UK island. If it is by car, all details are available to 'security', probably also by credit card usage or a host of other means. This will be tempered by 'profiling', a young woman with a child would be less suspicious than a single guy carrying a heavy looking bag. The UK is one of the most watched by CCTV countries in the world.

The Basque and Catalan regions of Spain have similar 'tensions'. I expect many others too but I can't think of them atm.

This will be tempered by 'profiling', a young woman with a child would be less suspicious than a single guy carrying a heavy looking bag

Only if he's got a suntan.

If it wasn't for the GFA, the UK govt would tell NI to STFU, just like Scotland

However, an international treaty prevents the govt from doing just what it wants to NI

The UK's reputation would be ruined if it just repealed the GFA
and in some countries with a significant Irish population, like the USA, this could block trade deals
Under pressure from the powerful Irish lobby, the US Congress has stepped in before to block business deals,
iirc (during the Troubles) Smith & Wesson until there were guarantees that no weapons would go to the RUC

afaik, no other country in the UK has these kind of livestock controls between itself and rUK, only NI

That's because it's the only country in the UK which can separate itself from any possible outbreaks of disease on the mainland.

By comparison, a licence is required to move English pigs within England, purely as a means of disease control.

Theoretically I know NI has a long and complex history, I grew up in the west coast of Scotland so have some idea of sectarian divides. The scary thing is that nationalism, English, Irish and Scottish strips my more considered and thoughtful side away and leaves me feeling angry and victimised. It isn't a comfortable or sensible place from which to make decisions. I do think the short term political decisions being made now are likely to have long term impacts of the stability of the U.K. that are not being properly considered or acknowledged.

Of note

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46152849

A Ryanair plane has been seized by French authorities in a row over money in the latest problem for the airline.

The French civil aviation authority grounded the Boeing 737 on Thursday at Bordeaux airport, before it was due to fly to Stansted with 149 passengers.

(contd)

Returning to mainstream:

I am OUTRAGED that Raab didn't know this most basic fact about UK trade 🤬
and apparently other cabinet ministers too.
Even "clever" Gove reportedly only realised in February

They should all be sacked for gross incompetence
but then May would have to sack herself, too

On Westministenders, we were discussing these issues - food imports, NI border, JIT .. - before the bloody referendum

How the FUCK can govt ministers be so bloody ignorant 🤬

Their ignorance has led to them negotiating in totally the wrong direction with impossible red lines
and I'll bet they are all too up themselves to admit their mistakes publicly
to justify a U-turn back to Norway++ to save the country from disaster