To think people are creating hysteria around brexit

[whyispeppainthenightgarden]

I keep reading post about brexit And prepping and they seem to be crazy. Why are people creating so much hysteria around this. I can’t see how it would be beneficial to other countries to let it get in the state some posters are suggesting.

I only voted remain in a ‘better the devil you know’ way and because Farage was voting leave so that put me off.

OP, in case its not clear yet. Currently we have the help of other countries. Brexit voters have voted to tell them to stuff their foreign help and mutual agreements so Brits can go it alone. So expect that. Got it yet?

6 or 7 years perhaps?
Your assertion that MN remainers have called leavers "thick, racist, lying lowlifes" most certainly is hyperbole and is not helpful

Are you serious!?? You’ve never ever seen that on here? Or in the press? On social media? In real life?

Ok I’m not going to argue with someone who’s been living under a rock.

Can we please stop blaming the poor for brexit. The biggest group voting for Leave were pensioners, pensioners are now the least likely group to be living in poverty in the UK. Loads of well off home counties pensioners voted Leave. This doesn't fit the poor, struggling, downtrodden and ignored narrative though, these people have had very nice lives over the last forty years.

OP, in case its not clear yet. Currently we have the help of other countries. Brexit voters have voted to tell them to stuff their foreign help and mutual agreements so Brits can go it alone. So expect that. Got it yet?

Perfectly summed up! The vote essentially told all other EU nations that their people are no longer welcome in the UK and then we expect them to help us when things get tough, as they will? People are living in cloud cuckoo land.

I can’t think of any border except perhaps North Korea and sometimes Saudi Arabia where every single thing coming in and out is manually checked. Spot checks and intellligence led searches are much more normal. It certainly didn’t happen pre-EU.

Despite remainers on here claiming regularly that that it’s definitely going to happen, it’s been reported this morning that an MP has claimed France could institute the sort of checks some people on here are claiming are a sure thing. It’s such a controversial claim, the MP has remained anonymous, and it’s thought those sort of checks would only be instituted if there was a deliberate attempt to create what would amount to a blockade.

So it’s not at all an expected certainty as some people are claiming. Despite remainers keenness to declare their own intelligence, and awful lot of what is posted on here is either inaccurate propaganda or picked up from other threads and repeated as authoritative.

I’m not sure how such intelligent can have such poor knowledge of history either. The idea that dissenting states must be punished to preserve the integrity of a bloc is straight out of the Soviet playbook, as is the idea that it is all the fault of the country wanting to leave if measures repressive enough to kill people are brought in is something that could have come out of the mouth of Stalin or Mao Zedong.

And rerunning votes until the right result is given is heavily criticised when countries like the Maldives do it. But apparently it’s fine when the EU do it.

I do find it really worrying that we have a hardcore of people who not only call for the disenfranchisement of people whose vote has upset them or rerunning votes to fix it to be at the most opportune moment for them to win and allow the EU to offer a poor deal so they can fix a win. Now they also endorse and see as reasonable actions which might kill people, because they see it as something deserved for having the temerity to leave a political block.

If you look back historically, people who’ve behaved in the way remainers are at the moment have been very sinister people indeed. It really puzzles me how they can see themselves as the good guys.

I am fed up with both sides insulting each other.

If things get really bad pensioners WILL suffer because there won’t be enough money in pension funds/the state to pay them. Even guaranteed pensions.

We need working people to pay for pensions. If the jobs are not there because the UK is hard to trade with and businesses move to where they can do JIT manufacturing, or we don’t have people willing to work and the immigrants go, there won’t be enough working people to pay pensions.

The average family now only has 1.3 children. We need immigrants. We need jobs.

The situation in Government is such a disaster that The Daily Mail (!) was moved to publish this editorial yesterday;

DAILY MAIL COMMENT

Such a shift from its usual tone that the The Guardian responded;

Guardian Editorial

I dream that the Labour Party wakens up and starts to provide some semblance of an opposition.

Oh I don’t know about this one. I think it was way too complex and issue for people to vote really. I don’t mean that in a patronising way but people just getting on with their day to day lives, hoe much would they know other than the sound bites leading up to the vote?

With rights comes responsibilities.

With the right to vote, you have a responsibility to make an effort to research the issue, consider the options (to the best of your ability) and make an informed choice. Not just listen to soundbites.

To be fair, it was very hard to find out decent information because the leave campaign was full of fucking lies presented as fact.

@moredoll I believe the daily mail has a new editor with a different political leaning hence the recent (and welcome) change in tone.

Now they also endorse and see as reasonable actions which might kill people, because they see it as something deserved for having the temerity to leave a political block.

Endorse?!

I don't see any Remainers endorsing medicine supplies running out and putting lives at risk, or revelling in the thought of that happening simply so they can be proved right.

Where has anyone said that?

Ginger Of course it will be spot checks, but these will take time. The spot checks for illegal immigrants already slow lorries down. Checking actual goods will also slow things down. Of course the Government can ensure things are not slowed down by not checking. If I was an international criminal I would be using this time to smuggle stuff across the border. Because in reality I think what will happen is there will be less checks than usual, everything will still get across the border that is needed, and some will say there was no impact at all.

@moredoll the Mail has shifted its tone very slightly but it still essentially a hard brexit newspaper, chequers is unacceptable to the EU and should be to the Government too, it demands a deal on Goods but not on Services, ignoring the fact that lorry drivers offer a service!

If Labour did get into power, they want to stay in a SM and CU, which is best for us economically and solves NI, chequers does neither.

Personally, i hope the Tories rip themselves apart.

Of course the Government can ensure things are not slowed down by not checking

What people are missing here is that ferry capacity will be determined by the checks that are done on the French side. The UK govt can breach international agreements all it likes, but it can't force the French to not apply EU law. And if the French apply standard checks at the channel ports, it will take longer for lorries to get off ferries (because port space is limited).

And while incoming lorries cannot get off ferries at Calais, those same ferries cannot load Dover-bound traffic.

Good grief, this makes for depressing reading. How can people still be so so so ignorant!! IF there is a withdrawal agreement, things will transition slowly and it will probably be fine. Arguably not as good as now, but not a dramatic problem.

If the UK government does not agree to a permanent "backstop" to protect the Northern Ireland peace process, it will not be fine. If there is NO DEAL, things will NOT BE FINE! And those people who have their heads in the sand will be the first ones complaining.

Very glad I live nowhere near Kent when this shitshow finally hits. Years of disruption expected now.

Preparing for the worst is not hysteria anyone denying that these things can happen and look increasingly like they will happen is just being ignorant.

current mess, for all its convolutions, is also very simple. A hugely important vote was won by a tiny margin in a campaign of lies and criminal activity. To allow that to go unchecked is to surrender our democracy. It sets an unthinkable precedent for future elections in this country. And the stakes could not be higher. As a consequence of the vote millions of people will be stripped of their rights. For EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens in the EU, this may be the right to live in their own homes, to work or to stay with their families and to access the healthcare to which their taxes contribute. At the same time, the entire UK population is being stripped of European citizenship and the rights that come with it. If a conman tricks someone out of their life-savings through lies and deception, 99.9% of us would recognise the wrong. We would not approve of the conman keeping the spoils. We would demand reparation for the victim and punishment for the conman.''

From lottasth

@SushiMonster

yes, the Mail will always be the voice of Little England deluding itself it's Great Britain. But I think the fact that even the Mail is criticising the Tories, who landed us in this disaster, shows just how bad it could get.

I don't think planning for a no deal scenario can ever be described as hysterical. Our laws are very closely tied to the instigation of trade between ourselves and the rest of the EUU. If we decide to leave, and the government fail to have a deal in place, there we have to go back to the old system pre EU that we were in. Medicines have to be relicensed, Plans have to have mutually acceptable airworthiness certificates, Trade has to be customs checked to make sure it is compliant with the requirements for entry into the EU.

These are the rules to which we had previously signed up to with regards to trade with Non EU members. The EU are not putting up barriers to a trade deal, but have offered several. The fact is the Tory government can not even decide what it wants, so we are asking to leave, without having decided on what terms.

Yes they are all doomsday scenarios, but we have done no planning at all in 2 years and suddenly realise we are in a mess. It's not hysterical, far from it, it's not forthright enough. The foreign owned press and the lack of objective reporting are 2 of the biggest reasons why people are panicking now, the "there there it will all be fine, they need us more than we need them nonsense" has finally been shown for the misinformation it was and is.

@theodoracrainsgloves

Thanks, that’s a good idea I’ll start there.

A bit off-topic, but I've heard "the other side" say that the UK can't cherry-pick, that the four freedoms of the EU are indivisible. To which I've always thought, that makes no sense, it is perfectly possible to restrict labour movement and have free movement of everything else, and that outcome would be better for both sides than a no-deal Brexit. (And it's not "cherry-picking" to have a less comprehensive deal that grants each side exactly the same rights and duties.)

I googled a moment ago to find out why they claim the freedoms are indivisible, and the first article that came up was by some German academics who I think have exactly the same view as me.

blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/11/27/brexit-the-four-freedoms-and-the-indivisibility-dogma/

I think if I had been the person behind the camera the last time I heard an EU politician say there can't be free trade without free movement, my question would have been, "Do you mean can not, or will not?" "Can not" implies a technical issue that we could solve if we pile enough economists onto the problem, I suspect the truth is "will not", which there is no answer to, other than to hope they are bluffing and they will blink first.

yes, the Mail will always be the voice of Little England deluding itself it's Great Britain. But I think the fact that even the Mail is criticising the Tories, who landed us in this disaster, shows just how bad it could get.

The Mail has a new Editor who is a Remainer and has taken a pro Remain editorial line. So your post is just wrong.

It’s amazing how many remainers, the self declared brains of the nation, are so poorly informed.

Chuka Umuna on Politics Live just now 'our customs authorities carry out 55 million customs checks a year.....if we leave on WTO terms as advocated by x, y & z ...HMRC estimates that figure will rise to 26O million (not direct quote but figures the same). This is HMRC talking, not scare-mongering.

Anyone who is yet to be convinced should read the NAO reports in detail themselves.

The Mail has a new Editor who is a Remainer and has taken a pro Remain editorial line. So your post is just wrong.

Mail is still broadly pro Brexit. Editor may be a remain but it's readership isn't. It's got a bit less rabid though, I'll grant you that.