A questions about brexit - flights

[Stripybeachbag]

Can you buy flights between Europe and the UK after 29th March 2019? I checked a couple of airlines, e.g. Heathrow - Paris, and none were available. I haven't obviously got the time to check all routes with all airlines. Has anyone bought a holiday or flight after March next year?

Will flights to/from the UK excluding EU countries be affected?
e.g. UK to S Africa, UK to Singapore

Yes. All flights will be affected as every flight is currently covered by the EU and post Brexit, the UK won't be covered until a new agreement is reached.

The airlines can't refuse a refund. If they don't provide the service they can't expect to be paid. That's simple consumer law and it doesn't matter if it's out of their control or not.

The only simple thing in that statement is "complete bollocks".

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frustration_of_purpose for a start ....

(I avoided "Force Majeure" to keep any English lawyers happy ).

I suggest anyone who is planning spending a lot of money after March 29th familiarise themselves with this doctrine, as it could be applied in a lot of cases.

Thanks Annie.
How will airlines survive the turnoil I wonder?

THe Airlines and in fact all of business has been trying to get the ear of the government for quite a while
but when there was Boris fuck business Johnston as Foreign Secretary
and Michael we've had enough of experts Gove
and David its all Project Fear Davis in the cabinet
they got ignored

and the tabloids want us to look at Kim Kardashian's arse rather than think about how the super rich are shafting everybody else

I've been looking at the technical notices and other info released yesterday and I can't see anything relating to travel / border control !?

And yet there's loads of stuff about long term things like funding and research which seems odd?

I work in the travel industry as a freelancer so am desperately trying to educate myself!

The EU ones have been linked up thread.
The UK ones are coming out over the next few weeks
THe very disingenuous article picked up by lots of papers yesterday was only about train travel !

And yet there's loads of stuff about long term things like funding and research”

Easier ones first? They barely say anything anyway - better off looking at the ‘three men in a pub discuss hard brexit’ Video on YouTube, which actually imparts info.

they just need to find a cobbled together temporary measure, most likely a continuation of the current agreements for a few years.
Why should every other country allow the UK that luxury?

They had to work long and hard for their treaties
why should the UK get to freeload along with them having thrown its toys out of the pram ?

Depends on the airline. easyJet for example are releasing summer 19 flights at the end of September. We were looking for flights back to uk with Air France next June and those are available already.

All this "effectively imprisoned" stiff is hyperbole. DH works in aviation and there is no worry about grounded flights in April.

Can we still drive to France? I want to plan to go to Disney land Paris and was planning on driving there using the tunnel - is this still safe to book?

Those traveling to Europe after March will likely need to buy health travel insurance too as ehic won't be valid anymore. I'm still waiting to hear what the benefits of leaving are. It seems like a lot more hassle, red tape and cost to me.

If the UK does 'crash out' and is no longer part of the open skies agreement and all the certifications that are currently held as being part of the EU then airports, pilots, aeroplanes, the whole lot stops until everything is renegotiated. The CAA in the UK can be 'reinstated' as a certifying body for some aspects, it would take a year or so to do this if they try really hard.
Who would you sue if an aircraft with a faulty part dropped into central London and there would be NO insurance for anything?
Every single nut and bolt for every aircraft is tested and certified, as are the fitters who repair and maintain. All this would have to be renegotiated.

Polkerris
DH works in aviation and there is no worry about grounded flights in April.
Has he read the EU briefing paper?
Why does he think he knows more than the Open Skies experts ?
note that the UK has not yet released its paper on air travel ....
probably saving it for Monday

Nothing to stop the UK continuing to be part of the EU open skies agreement, on a kind of "licence" arrangement. There are other European states which aren't in the EU but are covered under the EU open skies agreement. Just the same as some European states not in the EU have adopted EU VAT regulations. Talk of airports closing for months is ridiculous scaremongering - it will be sorted before then.

There are other European states which aren't in the EU but are covered under the EU open skies agreement
Which ones?
Bearing in mind that if there is a no-deal Brexit the UK will NOT be part of the Customs Union
Just the same as some European states not in the EU have adopted EU VAT regulations.
But leaving the Customs Union is one of the "red lines"
and a Hard Brexit will break all of those deals
Talk of airports closing for months is ridiculous scaremongering - it will be sorted before then.
Heathrow do not think so.

Trouble is, the EU will have to agree a licence and as the UK have already discovered with the US, the terms are likely to be considerably less favourable. The EU is likely to want to expands its airline industry and for goods from the rest of tbe world bound for Europe, it makes economic sense to pick an EU country rather than the UK (less subsequent red tape). And my impression from the EU is that they are fed up with tbe UK asking for special favours.

I dont think airports will be closed for months but can easily see it being a few weeks if only because the EU has priorities of its own to deal with and this is a mess of the UKs own making.

European airlines will lose money if they can't fly in/out of the UK too as will European airports usually handling UK flights. It's not all about UK airports/airlines. European airlines/airports will be putting pressure on the EU to prevent any glitches in continuing operations. A continuation of normal service is beneficial to both sides so something will get sorted.

I really hope you're right! My livelihood depends on it (assuming other bits of Brexit don't bring it crashing down)

The only thing that isn't sorted is TM's 'red lines'.
Yes other EU airlines will lose out, at least for a while but the UK is probably not a 'major' destination to them and they will see no disruption at all, just a few gaps in aircraft landing and departure schedules while the UK farts about.
Heathrow reorganised it's loans to cover a possible 2 month loss of earnings. They wouldn't have gone to this expense if they didn't think there would be a problem.

DGRossetti

I am not talking bollocks. If you don't provide a service, you don't get paid. The "force majeure" element means that the consumer can't sue you for not providing the service.

Are you seriously suggesting that if eg you were a plumber and you said you'd fix my shower, and then didn't come for a reason outside your control, I should still have to pay for the service or wouldn't be offered a refund if I'd already paid?

Grannies, eggs and sucking come to mind here.

However, airlines and rail companies are a law unto themselves.

runningkeenster

You do realise that the laws concerning compensation from airlines are EU law don't you? Y'know - those laws that cease to exist once the UK exits?

The US have been working on it for some time, don't know the progress made twitter.com/i/status/1030016511199653888

I think runningkeenster was referring to English Common law, which applies to contracts. There's the idea that if it was impossible for a party to deliver whatever the contract was about, then they don't attract a liability for that in law.

So if you book a flight, and it's impossible for the airline to fly you a a result of the law changing (for example) they aren't bound to complete the contract, and a court cannot compel them to. Depending on the T&Cs, this also means you won't get your deposit - or complete fare - back.

I'll (re) post this

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frustration_of_purpose

as it's as good as you'll get from Wiki. I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. But I rub shoulders with a few from time to time - enough to know that any action against an airline that wasn't able to fly because of legal issues outside their control would be defended on the grounds of frustration in the first instance. Unless there's a more appropriate statutory defence.

Worth noting that if you can't take up a hotel reservation because you couldn't get there, you probably won't be able to claim consequential damages either.

Personally I don't have a dog in this fight, as I'm not planning on going anywhere privately for a while.

Of course the government can just pass a law relieving airlines of any liability once we're out of the EU. In fact, they may not even need to do that, as they've already got that power thanks to the Henry VIII clauses they slipped in when we were looking elsewhere.