Isn't it interesting how busy this section of MN is lately?

[Bearbehind]

Cages are being rattled.

Are Leavers finally realising they're not getting what they wanted, whatever that might be?

The government still appears to be operating under the 'they need us more than we need them' illusion hence all the bluster about 'no deal' but is it slowly sinking in that

a) The EU are not going to cave in to our demands
b) we cannot leave with no deal so are going to have to accept whatever is on offer.

In my slightly paranoid moments it seems tactical but who by and for what I don't know.
Putin
He paid for the Leave campaign (one of his cronies lent Arron Banks the money)
He wants the west destabilised to relatively strengthen Russia.
Same reason he paid for parts of the Trump social media campaign

My first thought he could but why? As in I understood when west and east were exporting ideologies but now... what's the difference? (Totally prepared to be corrected - this was just my bumbling around view not studied in any way) But then by relatively strengthen do you mean essentially just so he could seem stronger at home... as in look Russia is ok guys, these guys on the other hand....

Yup
He needs to show Russians that democracy is failing to give him a "strong man" mandate to keep asset stripping at home

Hence why Russian meddling in democracy is a massive threat that we ignore at our peril

Re Russia, not an expert but i know the country a little bit. The reason lies in Eastern Europe. Putin sought closer ties with Europe early on in his tenure but instead got expansion of the EU to the East (Poland and Baltic states especially, which also went on to join NATO). That strategy was heavily US and UK led. To simplify, that was like a rag to a bull. However, western powers felt expansion of the EU was the only way to really stabilise Eastern Europe in the long run.
Since then, Russia has seen the EU as a problem.

Re Gransnet

They recite discredited mantras and some post huge quantities of cut-and-paste which would never convince anyone. I wonder why?

I suspect the cut & paste queen is a Russian troll! But I'm not allowed to say that there. She convinces all the Leavers; they think she's welll informed

I rarely contribute here on Mumsnet but I read a lot. I much prefer your threads to ours...

maizie can you report the Russian shill?

I'm convinced Claig was being paid by Russia. I wouldn't be surprised if 'he' reappeared if/when the prospect of leaving starts to go pear shaped.

I think Leavers may underestimate the seething fury Remainers have at their rights being stripped from them, being dragged into a damaging Brexit that pleases no one and cause untold misery for EU Citizens and everyone else.
I agree. Remainers have been very quiet until now, but their seething anger might bubble over when the shit hits the fan and they find themselves getting blamed for the inevitable clusterfuck. The 'open letter' thread was an eye-opener in this sense, with leavers saying a disastrous Brexit will be the fault of (a) remainers, (b) the EU itself, (c) the Labour Party. In other words, anyone but the people who voted for it/drove it through parliament.
To answer the OP, yes, the extra activity is very noticeable.

Totally agree twofingers

My 'seething anger' definitely bubbled over on that thread!

I'm just astounded by the lengths people are going to to blame anyone but themselves for this mess.

I'm still (call me naive) amazed that leave posters will in all seriousness post comments that are totally untrue.

Points that have been corrected and clarified time and again are still being churned out.

I know mousse. It's why I don't think this divide will ever be healed.

You can't begin to heal a rift when one side refuses to acknowledge the truth and the facts.

Whatever happens now, there's always going to be a great deal of anger.

The way it's heading is that it's going to be the hard core Leavers who are angry at BINO and are forever going to blame the EU for not give us what we wanted.

I'm just astounded by the lengths people are going to to blame anyone but themselves for this mess.

Isn't it strange, when Brexit was supposed to be all about British sovereignty, and British people deciding everything as locally as possible, and being fervently Britishly patriotic, and the primacy of British opinions, and the British proudly bestriding the world as we lead awestruck supplicant lesser nations towards Bigly Free Trade against the weak crumbling behemoth of the EU, and having British control over everything we could wish for.

And yet, when it comes to actually Deciding Stuff and Taking Back Control, apparently what we need to do is flop about spinelessly, whining about how helpless we are in the face of PunishmentBullying and how if all our demands aren't delivered to our laps on a velvet cushion then it's all somebody else's fault, and oh deary me how on earth can delicate ickle widdle us possibly be expected to Do Anything?

Lol at that description- it's like Kevin and Perry in Harry Enfield 😂

There has been a lot of stuff around recently about the psychology of right wing groups one of the key factors is the feeling of persecution. The need to feel hard done by.

I was in the US recently and that was very clear on Fox News, Trump is always portrayed as the victim.

Brexit supporters are victims, they don't need to give facts, in fact they react negatively when asked to provide facts.

maizie can you report the Russian shill?

I've reported her several times, ShackUp but Gnet's not bothered. Besides, all the Leavers adore her...

maizie, do you think this mindset is part of the problem you've been seeing?

news.sky.com/story/europe-really-doesnt-need-us-as-much-as-we-need-them-11462776

I'm not sure that I understand your question, pineapple.

I was wondering if the Gransnet Leaver crowd is firmly in the "they need us more than we need them" camp, still thinking of the UK as an imperial power.

I am still running into this on a regular basis in my own life. People who voted Leave seem to think of the EU as actually being "Germany" or "France," and therefore consider the UK as more than a match for them. What they never seem to consider is that the whole point of the EU is that is it more than the sum of its parts - and therefore much more powerful than the UK on its own.

On the flip side to increased activity on here- has anything at all been reported about TM’s meeting with Macron on Friday.

All I’ve seen is Downing St refusing to comment so I guess it went badly.

I'm very impressed with myself so far at keeping my seething rage under control in rl. Virtually everyone on my fb is actually know to me personally and not randoms I've picked up along the way.

Anyway there's quite a few leavers amongst my friends, some educated and gave a great deal of thought and invested their time researching to come to their descision. And then I have a few leavers that are still spouting their far right crap, I've waivered from time to time about deleting them but that would make life harder. I've been restrained in my comments on some of the shit they post but still blame everyone else but themselves on the almighty pile of steaming shit we're currently careering towards.

So I'd hope unrealistically that the increase of posts when I hit active discussions is down to awareness that the garden of Britain is not smelling of lovely 'english' roses.

I've had another look at Gransnet, which has changed quite a bit in the last few months with a sudden influx of leavers, especially one particularly obnoxious poster who tries to drown out any discussion with long cut-and pastes, often quite irrelevant, is ultra patronising and goes in for a lot of name-calling.

A poster who voted Remain and criticised the Daily Mail, Express and the Sun was accused of "being a snob". Is that what leavers on MN think?

I think 'being a snob' can often be interpreted as 'this person is more informed than me'. It's a low blow dealt when Leavers are losing the argument.

The low blow comes just before they mention Hitler, or accuse Remainers of being anarchists - and believe it or not that is now happening on Gransnet. - have a look for yourselves.

I've had another visit to Gransnet and I am glad to report it is not as much of an old reactionary folks refuge as I thought it was. Sure enough the same bonkers brexiters keep posting their mantras but I was pleased to see this-

"According to a recent poll, support for staying in the EU is 79% among voters aged 18-24.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/13/labour-reversal-brexit-jeremy-corbyn

I do not think that Gransnetters should be ignoring the opinions of this age group who might be our children or grandchildren or even great grandchildren, but we all know that we are talking about their future much more than our's. So listen to them."