Isn't it interesting how busy this section of MN is lately?

[Bearbehind]

Cages are being rattled.

Are Leavers finally realising they're not getting what they wanted, whatever that might be?

The government still appears to be operating under the 'they need us more than we need them' illusion hence all the bluster about 'no deal' but is it slowly sinking in that

a) The EU are not going to cave in to our demands
b) we cannot leave with no deal so are going to have to accept whatever is on offer.

The 3 blokes video also explains that many items are only insured for transport because of the deals in place between departure port & destination port countries. Without deals, it can be impossible to get insurance for big cargo ships to transport stuff between 2 countries... I guess to insure against loss at sea or other trading problems betw. those 2 countries.

The blokes do meander a bit, but they cover a huge range of areas.

I have to say I've shared that "three blokes" video on FB and will do on Linkedin
I understand a LOT of the issues (I used to work in Clearance at Dover Docks)
but I found a lot of the context absolutely fascinating
its worth listening to a couple of times

@glassofport no shit. But that doesn'tean that we can't leave woyhout a deal. There actually isn't a reason we can't leave without a deal. We just need to accept that it will be difficult and start planning for it instead of expecting a deal where there is a good chance one will not materialise. Its the defeatist mentality that really grates me. We can leave without a deal. We likely will leave without a deal. And instead of wringing our hands we should be dealing with it. If the government hadn't wasted so much time with Brussels instead focusing on instigating trade talks with non eu countries and creating a brexit action plans (so how they would deal with the extra burden on customs, how much they would lower their general trade tarrif, which industries they were going to poach fr the EU by negotiating low tax/no tax trade deals to undercut European states etc). The British have become a bit soft. Upper lips need to stiffen, economists (the proper ones) need to be called in, experts in trade law need to be consulted and every available diplomat needs to be sent of to negotiate using any insentive they can. But I suppose that is expecting a bit much. The British can be characterised by their ability to pull through absolutely anything but not until they absolutely have to.

Sounds like the "We'll know in 50 years if Brexit was a good thing" stance that Rees Mogg is now taking. He's also very enamoured with other people suffering.

@racecardriver
We can leave without a deal
And instead of wringing our hands we should be dealing with it
Contradiction in terms
instead focusing on instigating trade talks with non eu countries
not legal while in EU, not likely once not
creating a brexit action plans
well yes, that would have been a good idea
how much they would lower their general trade tarrif
from 0% to what exactly - you need to read more trade policy
negotiating low tax/no tax trade deals to undercut European states etc
And be in breach of WTO rules - or did you not understand that bit

@lijk thanks, no energy for the whole thing, far too hot today. I didn't know that, all the shipping law I've read has been based on either domestic laws and how they effect load etc or the marine insurance clubs (cannot for the life of me remember what they called). Do you know how they work around it when no agreements are in place? Shipping law can be a bit funny. Maybe they just expect it to operate without insurance on the expectation that they arbitrate or something? Oraybe just rely on really old laws? Will try to read up on it before brexit happens (if my toddler will bloody let me)

economists (the proper ones) need to be called in

PMSL- by 'proper ones' you mean 'ones that tell you what you want to hear'!

I just posted something on Twitter about how we live in an age when folk think it's they're entitled to be told only what they want to hear, regardless of how false. Oh Well.

@Racecardriver

We may have to deal with it, but the cost is running into the tens of billions, there is a huge divorce bill to pay and it's going to cost hundreds of thousands of jobs.

What I don't get is the benefits of Brexit?

Because there are none

The reasons that a no deal Brexit would be a complete and utter disaster are myriad and can be read about all over the internet... but even when someone gives you a video explaining it, you can’t be arsed to watch it and want someone to tell you.*

This. For fucks sake.

MNHQ get involved with threads only when someone brings it to their attention.

Stuff is being moved to the Brexit board because people are reporting them. Clearly, it’s in someone’s interest to get them out of sight.

That seems to be the MO of those in favour of Leave tanith

Make it go away and it will all be fine.

They’re doing the same with the trans posts and the Feminists board.
I believe MNHQ are under a lot of pressure from outside sources promising to get them shut down (just as soon as the mid-terms in the US are over).

Over the past couple of years I've started a few "AIBU to think/ask" threads discussing Brexit. I've immediately reported my threads to MNHQ and asked them to not move them because I was genuinely asking if IBU and it was too important a matter to shove over here. MNHQ have complied. I guess the frothers & yawners are madly reporting these days.

There is definitely an element of running scared among Leavers now.

They know they still have no answers.

They know their victory was based on lies.

They know it's going to damage the economy.

Yes, for some insane reason most of them still think it's a good idea but they know they can't defend that position based on any rational explanation.

I thought this topic had always been busy.

And I haven't seen any "running scared" amongst Leavers in RL, they just want to get on with it.

MN isn't a terribly representative community of the country at large on any political issue (the result is nearly always the dead opposite of the most voiciferous here) and doesn't seem to be more in-tune on this one either.

(No, I didn't vote Leave)

meditrina that's exactly the problem though; get on with what?

They've got no answers, no plan and no actual way of leaving.

I agree they just want us to be able to say we've left, hence the silencing of threads etc, because it seems to me they are afraid the more people talk about Brexit and bad news there is, the less likely actually leaving will be.

I think Leavers may underestimate the seething fury Remainers have at their rights being stripped from them, being dragged into a damaging Brexit that pleases no one and cause untold misery for EU Citizens and everyone else.

This isn't meant to sound like a threat, just that these divisions will take generations to heal. Fucking David Fucking Cameron and the Fucking ERG bastards plus all the other spineless MPs, I despise them. I think the future for this country is a bit bleak, even if by some miracle they can mitigate the damage. FFS.

I don't want to Remain (be on the winning side) just because it's more Seething or Angry side. (sigh). What a horrible farce whole situation is.

^I don't either, that isn't quite what I meant. The divisions are going to run deep for decades and in the immediate future, we don't have a govt or opposition that look capable of addressing and healing them.

yup, we are in angry times. The Trumpista divisions in USA are worse, I suppose, is a vague consolation to me. The long term damage to institutions that long brought us stability, irk. True Sad.

Being an oldish Mum, I sometimes look at Gransnet, and I am struck by the contrasting posts on brexit.

Whereas the overwhelming number of MN posters are pro-remain (as I am), and this was also the case on GN from before the referendum until recently, there now suddenly seem to be a lot of new GN posters who are rabidly pro-brexit. They recite discredited mantras and some post huge quantities of cut-and-paste which would never convince anyone. I wonder why?

I would wonder 'who' rather than why.

It's the rabid vicious bit that gets me. And while I see it from people saying they want to crash out Ive also seen it from people saying they want to remain (paticularly if an actual dialogue seems to be occuring). It seems to be almost deliberate the on going polarization and no debate / dialogue just snarling.it may be accidental - and one of the worst consequences of calling the referendum IMO because undoing this.kind of.division of people is hard. In my slightly paranoid moments it seems tactical but who by and for what I don't know.