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Brexit

Westministenders: A LOOOONNNGGGGGGGG Hot Summer

988 replies

RedToothBrush · 24/07/2018 19:57

May has officially demoted Raab and the Brexit Department to just being responsible for practical implimentation in the UK and not negogitions.

This shouldn't be a surprise, its been the case in reality for some time, much to David Davis annoyance.

The official government position now seems to be scare the shit out of everyone about the possibility of No Deal in order to force the EU to make a deal. Jeremy Hunt has been dutifully spelling this out, by talking about an 'accidental' Brexit.

The government are already outsourcing responsibility for this potential eventuality to industy and business by telling them they need to stockpile food in order to keep supply lines going. This WILL mean price rises will start to happen soon. It also means there is no coordinated government plan and if businesses can't afford to do this as its heavily dependant on having sufficient cash flow in reserve to be able to do it, or don't want to, then you, me and everyone else is going to be well and truly on their own. Whilst the public are not being told to stockpile, its hard to justify not doing so, if this is the current government line.

The government has also done a u-turn on when the repeal of the European Communities Act will come into force. They fought hard to have it fixed for 29th March 2019. Thats now been rolled back to Dec 2020. This is fine, but in practice, makes no difference what so ever if we have no deal or the EU refuse to honour a transition deal on the terms the UK want. The ERG will also go nuts at it and try to get May to roll back on it.

Raab has also made a point of saying that if we don't have a deal by October (rather than midnight 29th March 2019) we are going into No Deal land by default.

Parliament has now broken up for the summer, with May surviving, so things are likely to be a little quieter for a few weeks, but come September this is all going to blow up with avengance.

If you think the last few weeks have been a rollercoaster, just wait for the Autumn.

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DGRossetti · 25/07/2018 09:59

Invoking the spirit of 1939 wouldn't work...

Because ultimately even Brexiteers aren't that thick.

1939 was an external threat from a foreign invader.

2018 is an internal threat from a bunch of fucking muppets.

TheElementsSong · 25/07/2018 10:02

Because ultimately even Brexiteers aren't that thick

I beg to differ.

RedToothBrush · 25/07/2018 10:03

Because ultimately even Brexiteers aren't that thick.

Evidence please.

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GhostofFrankGrimes · 25/07/2018 10:07

Bannerman has deleted his tweet.

RedToothBrush · 25/07/2018 10:09

David Schneider @davidschneider
Looks like we’ve now entered stage 9 of Brexit.

Westministenders: A LOOOONNNGGGGGGGG Hot Summer
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ClicketyClackDroomDroom · 25/07/2018 10:15

^^

TheElementsSong · 25/07/2018 10:16

Bannerman has deleted his tweet.

The big chicken. Where's the courage of his convictions?

PineappleSunrise · 25/07/2018 10:26

You mean he overcame his gut reaction to vilify anyone who questions his party's madly dogmatic, impractical handling of this entirely self-imposed crisis? Did someone have a word with him and tell him to pipe down, or did he actually have a moment of clarity?

TheElementsSong · 25/07/2018 10:28

Nah, I reckon he's just a big whingey chicken, like all Brexiteers.

Talkstotrees · 25/07/2018 10:41

He has retweeted but added some gobbledegook clause about future EU extremism.

Bodoni · 25/07/2018 10:44

Update on the petition to allow European Citizenship to be retained - it’s not yet ready for signing because it’s being translated into all the EU languages which will take a few weeks. They say there's "a BIG wave of interest and support." Latest info at www.eucitizen2017.org/

Talkstotrees · 25/07/2018 10:48

Thank you Bodoni, I have been hunting for it!

DGRossetti · 25/07/2018 10:50

I'm already on a 'list' somewhere.

I have been since 1987 ...

DGRossetti · 25/07/2018 10:54

@RTB ... when was that list published ? If a while ago, #8 seems eerily prescient with specific 50 years Hmm

I wonder what people with US medical implants can look forward to ? Asking is a bit close to home, as DW was fitted with one last year.

DGRossetti · 25/07/2018 10:56

because it’s being translated into all the EU languages which will take a few weeks.

Looks like they pay more attention to detail than HMGs half-arsed attempts then.

Quietrebel · 25/07/2018 11:00

'Extreme loyalty to the Eu'... for the first time I'm actually scared...

DGRossetti · 25/07/2018 11:01

Because ultimately even Brexiteers aren't that thick

TheElementsSong - I beg to differ.
RTB- Evidence please.

well these are flying off the shelves Smile

Westministenders: A LOOOONNNGGGGGGGG Hot Summer
prettybird · 25/07/2018 11:12

Forgot to post the Smarties picture Blush

....maybe these are the ones we should stockpile Grin

Westministenders: A LOOOONNNGGGGGGGG Hot Summer
Quietrebel · 25/07/2018 11:14

Wanting this country to prosper is what loyalty actually means.
I'm heartbroken by the constant stream of toxic sludge and by the realisation that they will. not. stop until the country at large sees the EU as an enemy. A real one.
I'm starting to think naturalising will be utterly useless in the face of such hostility: I and DCs will be forced to choose between our EU and British citizenships anyway or face discrimination. And even if we were to choose the British one, we'll only ever be 'paper Brits'...
I cannot convey enough the sadness I feel right now.
It doesn't help I have a lot of crap going on in other areas of my life too. But hey, in the immortal words of Churchill, KBO.

Mrsr8 · 25/07/2018 11:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Apileofballyhoo · 25/07/2018 11:42

I wonder has Bannerman ever read the GFA?

DGRossetti · 25/07/2018 11:58

Lighten the mood a bit ...

Westministenders: A LOOOONNNGGGGGGGG Hot Summer
RedToothBrush · 25/07/2018 11:59

Peter Foster @ pmdfoster
Olly Robbins is in Brussels today for more #Brexit talks.

Top of the agenda is the 'insoluble' Irish backstop issue - but how 'insoluble' it really? Is there a way through?

Maybe. Some thoughts after chats with both sides. 1/

First, the problem, real quick.

EU needs 'backstop' that works in all eventualities, including a breakdown in future relationship talks at the end of transition.

With no border in Ireland, there "must" logically be checks between NI and GB to protect single market. /2

The problem is that puts a customs border in the Irish Sea, and the UK government cannot live with that, since it splits up UK.

Theresa May was very hard over on this point in her speech in Belfast. Barnier's Task Force 50 blanched last week when they saw how hard over. /3

UK says NO customs border, EU says single market must be protected. So how to square the circle?

On June 7 UK put forward a partial backstop proposal that left all UK in a 'temporary customs arrangement' that was v close to a customs union, but not called that. /4

The EU rejected this for several reasons, but most fundamental was that it would lead to creating a 'future relationship', however temporary, via Article 50, which is the 'divorce' clause of TFEU.

EU sources say doing this via Article 50 is legal "anathema". Would die in ECJ/5

So are we stuck? Or is there a solution that gives the EU it's "NI-specific" backstop AND leaves the UK in a de facto customs union so obviates need for customs border in the Irish Sea.

Maybe there is...sources/experts on both sides discussing.

It goes like this. /6

The UK accepts an NI-specific backstop, per current EU draft protocol, with some tweaks.

BUT the EU agrees that as soon as the trade talks begin after Brexit Day, they will create a "parallel backstop" that keeps UK in an identical temporary customs arrangement. /7

In this way, the Irish backstop in the Article 50 Withdrawal Agreement has a "conjoined twin" created under Article 218 (which is for trade) and so has proper legal base, which matters to the EU side.

^And there is no customs border in the Irish Sea.
/8^

What about regulatory checks, I hear you ask? Aren't the 70% of checks anyway, how will DUP wear those?

Well, I note that Sammy Wilson signed the ERG amendment saying no customs border, but silent on the regulatory side. /9

Recall there are already regulatory checks on animal health, timber, fertiliser.

Could these be mutually de-dramatised? Listen carefully to both sides red lines, and you might think so.

Push them back to farm/factory? /10

Even more, could the EU accept lesser checks GB-NI, than they need between GB and EU27? Given the scale of trade etc? If so, then you would obviate issue of same checks Dover-Calais as Holyhead-Belfast, which obviously DUP won't like. /11

So. Have we cracked it? Do you hear cries of 'Eureka!' from the Berlaymont and the Cabinet Office?

No, not yet. Lots to go wrong. This is blue-sky thinking, for now both sides still sticking to red lines.

Some obvious problems... /12

As @SamuelMarcLowe points out to me here, the EU might make the 'conjoined twin' backstop conditional on a deal at end of transition 2020.

Brit sources clear this doesn't fly. Can't. Obviously - since if EU/WA backstop kicks in alone, we're back to square one /13

So, could the 'twin' or 'parallel' backstop survive a 'no deal' in Dec 2020? That's a key question.

The next one, is what kind of backstop, or 'temporary customs arrangement' are we talking about?

There was lots in the June 7 paper the EU didn't like. /14

Its possible that you could get around the 'conditional' side, by agree extension clause to the transition period (UK yet to ask for this) so that you can kick the can in event that no deal is done by 2020 - which is inevitable, unless we are talking ultra-skinny FTA. /15

Next problem. Recall David Davis nearly quit over the June 7 paper. Could Brexiteers swallow a fuller customs union that looks - as @DavidHenigUK points out - like it could go on for a very long time.

Recall we are only talking 'temporary' here. Not endstate. But even so... /16

It also, as @alexebarker just pointed out, gives EU an effective veto on leaving customs union, since it decides whether UK-EU deal is enough to not use NI backstop (which still exists) /17

political answer to a lot of those questions probably lies in the Future Relationship declaration - which was Raab's underlying point in his interview.

You can't fix the Withdrawal Agreement issues, without detail on the Future Relationship. Politically one sells the other /18

But consider the crunch, when it comes, and the options that UK parliament are facing in January...February....March...

The markets will be screaming, companies will be relocating, supply chains will be re-orientating to EU... /19

Imagine. It's February...the British jumbo jet is hurtling earthwards...the control column is shuddering in the hands of British parliament...this is the 'no deal' reality....

The options are not good: a general election? retreat to Norway? a 2nd referendum, extend A50? /20

All of these are multiple forms of betrayal...and no decent Brexiteer counter-proposal in sight that fixes Irish border issue?

In those circumstances, does a deal get done, even if pretty ugly one for UK?

Reckon it might. 21/ENDS

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/07/25/conjoined-twins-brexits-irish-backstop-conundrum-could-solved/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
'Conjoined twins': how Brexit's Irish backstop conundrum could be solved
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Quietrebel · 25/07/2018 12:00

LOL 🤣🤣
Thank you!

Cailleach1 · 25/07/2018 12:21

Here is a link to a programme on the BBC World Service. It would never be on the other BBCs. It is a dutch commentator on how Brexit is viewed in the Netherlands. It is straightforward Dutch bluntness. He says what he thinks without pulling any punches.

twitter.com/thomasforth/status/1021778708678553600

Anyone hear the guy on James O'Brien. WTO going to be bureaucratic nightmare.

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