Scottish Nationalists: Why leave one union to join another?

[FrancinePefko42]

From my understanding, the primary motive for Scotland leaving the United Kingdom is to have full autonomy as independent sovereign state - with all the freedom that would confer.

Why does being closely tied to Brussels have greater appeal than retaining the ties with England?

@Walkingdeadfangirl if you say so. Actually it means exactly that, because it happened a couple of weeks ago.

But you carry on with your non fact based arguments. The DUP voted on an issue deemed only English, so work that one out.

And no, English MPs don’t vote on devolved matters because they’re devolved and therefore dealt with in the Scottish Parliament where only MSPs get to vote.

YeTalkShiteHen

FrancinePefko42 was that a serious question?

Yes.

If you and Calyx feel that Scottish MPs in Westminster are wasting their time, it is reasonable to ask why bother? Isn't it?

Do you even understand why SF don’t take their seats?
Yes. They refuse to swear the oath on principle.

Or that the elected SNP MPs have every right to be in parliament

They do - as do SF MPs. But no one is forcing them if they think it's a waste of their time.

Keeptrudging

I'll post the full comment again, to refresh your memory.

Thank you. Very helpful

Why would nurses from Sri Lanka choose to come and work here, where housing is very over-priced and in short supply? They can already work here with a visa. Quick Google suggests average wage in Sri Lanka is $1,619. This doesn't suggest it will be affordable for them to pay for visa/flights

Because , like most economic migrants , they are attracted primarily by the opportunity to earn more in a higher wage economy .

Is that clearer?

Nothing stopping you or anyone else setting up your own political parties and offering the electorate more choices in every constituency in the land.

Except a fuckload of money and an electoral system where a new party could actually conceivably win (like in France) as opposed to ours, which is designed to preserve the status quo at any cost.

YeTalkShiteHen I guess you dont follow politics then, of course the DUP voted on an issue deemed only English because EVEL does NOT mean Scottish or N.Irish MPs are not allowed to vote on English only issues. I can't tell if your ignorant or spreading lies?

The SNP stopped English MPs allowing fox hunting in England despite it NOT being a Scottish issue. The SNP MP Marion Fellows sits on the English education select committee. What do you think she does there? Maybe she makes the tea?

@FrancinePefko42 neither Calyx or I said they were wasting their time. You’re paraphrasing again and I’m afraid that with your significantly limited understanding of things it makes a sensible discussion quite difficult, so I’ll stop trying now.

@Walkingdeadfangirl in which case why were the SNP MPs not allowed to vote in the instance I was talking about?

Aye damn those SNP MPs stopping toffs and their blood sports, what arseholes eh? 😂

Marion is my local MP, I’ll ask her myself.

Given that Westminster has its tentacles in about fucking everything I find it hilarious that people get so uppity about anyone else having a say.

This thread and all the rest don’t take long to expose the nasty little undertones, the scathing comments about the Scots, the sneering and the belittling.

All the while whining and calling us divisive. Very very funny.

If a bill is certified as England only in its entirety the members of a public bill committee will only be chosen from MPs representing constituencies in England. If an England only bill is considered on the floor of the House at committee stage it will be considered only by MPs representing constituencies in England

@Walkingdeadfangirl from Parliament’s own website. So tell me again how the fuck the DUP were allowed to vote on a bill under EVEL?

So thanks for your assertion that I’m both thick and a liar but I think you’ll find that as charming as your nasty snide little comments were, it is you who is wrong.

Wee google there and it would appear that the committee that Marion sits on is an “investigative” committee rather than a “legislative” one, so yet another of your misinformed, nasty little comments not quite as you said.

Literally took about 5 seconds to find that, but I’m sure Marion will be just delighted that you wonder why she’s on the committee because she’s Scottish. It’s not like she’s faced shit like that before is it?

Wasn't the fox hunting thing before EVEL? And non-Scottish MPs may not vote on devolved matters, but they certainly can and do vote to remove our powers. (See Withdrawal Act, Supreme Court action)

FrancinePefko42 Just for your information, this is the list of developing countries which NHS states that healthcare professionals should not be actively recruited from. This would be because they don't have enough of them. I wonder where that sits with you morally?

www.nhsemployers.org/your-workforce/recruit/employer-led-recruitment/international-recruitment/uk-code-of-practice-for-international-recruitment/list-of-developing-countries

in which case why were the SNP MPs not allowed to vote in the instance I was talking about? You haven't linked to any case!

Which is irrelevant because ALL MPs get to vote on all bills before they are passed into law. EVEL DOES NOT CHANGE THAT. You really dont know what eval is do you? And I really cant be arsed explaining it to you.

“investigative” committee rather than a “legislative” one I never mentioned what sort of committee it was. So you have side stepped the question, what the fuck is a SNP MP doing being on a committee for an English only issue?

Why is the SNP influencing English matters that have nothing to do with them. They have to much power.

Well, see how "we" voted Leave because it was a UK vote? MPs sit in the UK Parliament, and do UK Parliamentary work.

YeTalkShiteHen
@FrancinePefko42 neither Calyx or I said they were wasting their time.

This is a copy paste of Calyx's comment: Them being there is a waste of their time and we need our independence so our MPs of all parties can get on with things for Scotland.

YeTalkShiteHen
Your comment was:
"And exactly what good has this so called voice in Westminster done? Nothing so far as I can see, beyond providing the media with MPs to mock when they try to implement change. Oh and giving the odious little shit that is Bercow a chance to wield his power stick and kick Ian Blackford out for making a very good fucking point"

If "the so-called voice [of Scottish MPs] in Westminster" has achieved "nothing" (your words), why do feel so enraged at the logical question prompted by your own view?

If being there does "nothing as far as you can see", why bother attending?

Keeptrudging
FrancinePefko42 Just for your information, this is the list of developing countries which NHS states that healthcare professionals should not be actively recruited from. This would be because they don't have enough of them. I wonder where that sits with you morally?

I can see their point.

LoveInTokyo
"Nothing stopping you or anyone else setting up your own political parties and offering the electorate more choices in every constituency in the land."

Except a fuckload of money and an electoral system where a new party could actually conceivably win (like in France) as opposed to ours, which is designed to preserve the status quo at any cost

From parliament's own website
People wishing to stand as an MP must be over 18 years of age, be a British citizen or citizen of a Commonwealth country or the Republic of Ireland

Candidates must be nominated by ten parliamentary electors of the constituency they wish to stand in.

Authorisation is required to stand for a specific party, otherwise candidates will be described as independent or have no description.

In order to encourage only serious candidates to stand, a £500 deposit is required when submitting the nomination papers - returned if the candidate receives over five per cent of the total votes cast

To win in each constituency, you need to convince and motivate more of the voters to give you their vote than the other candidates on the ballot paper. We know who has won within a few hours of the polls closing.

In order to form a government you need the support / confidence of a majority of your fellow MPs.

We were given the opportunity to "reform" this beautifully simple and straightforward electoral system under the ConDem coalition and Nick Clegg's referendum. We said no thanks.

The SNP walk out of parliament last month was a stunt. The request from Ian Blackford for parliament to sit in private could have / would have been granted about 20 minutes later (after PMQs). Bercow was very polite asking him to sit down several times.

But I guess the stunt worked well in stirring up anti Westminster sentiment.

They (SNP) have absolutely no issue with 158 powers being held in Brussels. The Brexit bill required for these powers to be repatriated to the UK and all bar 24 of these will be devolved to the appropriate parliament / assembly in Scotland and Wales.

The remaining 24 are in areas where we have said it makes sense to have a one UK approach (e.g, fisheries, agriculture and food labels).

Why such anger against a UK-wide approach to just 24 (out of a possible 158) areas, when the SNP would be perfectly happy to have all 158 devolved to Brussels?

If you call 24 out of a possible 158 areas of legislation a "Westminster Power Grab" - by that same logic, you should call support for Remaining in the EU - a "Brussels Power Grab"

Is it nice being so obtuse? Easier than having to actually think, I suppose.

Obtuse? Goady fucker more like

The powers are ones that will make a difference depending whether Westminster or Brussels holds them. Westminster wants to Frack Scotland, Brussels respects Scotland's right to say no to Fracking. Westminster wants to sell rights to Scottish branding. Brussels protects the names showing provenance eg Stornoway black pudding, Scotch whisky.

Scotland needs those powers back to protect us from Westminster during Brexit negotiation. We will be even more asset stripped otherwise.

I said waste of their time about our MPs going down there but they still need to go otherwise we are saying just do what you want.

Do you have any responses ?

I just responded to your post

Is franking mentioned in the European Union Withdrawal Bill?

Fracking