Scottish Nationalists: Why leave one union to join another?

[FrancinePefko42]

From my understanding, the primary motive for Scotland leaving the United Kingdom is to have full autonomy as independent sovereign state - with all the freedom that would confer.

Why does being closely tied to Brussels have greater appeal than retaining the ties with England?

prettybird

You're quite right - the exact quote was - London is becoming a kind of giant suction machine, draining the life out of the rest of the country - which I had mis-remembered as a black hole.

BTW I did Google your attempt to blame Vincent Cable for your "black hole" jibe against London. I just wanted to see if you had the decency to admit you had made this up.

Got my degree in St Andrews thank you. Loved it there. Great Uni with lots of international students.

And emoticons are a perfectly acceptable short hand method of adding to communication, especially when dealing with someone obtuse. I don't really care if you don't like it. It helps get my point and tone across to others.

I will continue to be polite - even if you are not.

Motheroffourdragons
Well, the president is elected for a period of 5 years, then a new one is elected.
My question was
What mechanism is there for ordinary citizen voters of the EU to get rid of the President of the European Commission?

In case, it was not clear the first time, I am not asking you to serve as Google for me - and I am tempted to add one of prettybird's emojis here. I am checking to see
a) If you know this
b) If you'll admit it.

When I talk about "elected" and "democratic accountability" I mean "by the people" and "to the people" - not "by other EU has been politicians" and "to a set term of office"

prettybird
especially when dealing with someone obtuse.
I don't really care if you don't like it
the black hole that is London

I will continue to be polite - even if you are not

Continue to be polite?

Just as well Google is more forgiving of a mis-remembering and understands the correlation between a black hole and a "giant suction machine" That was how I found the exact quote (which was, after all over 4 years ago) - as I am sure you did.

prettybird
Got my degree in St Andrews

So far you have mentioned that you have a degree, the subject and now the institution. When will we learn what class it was? Year?

Are you in need of validation, prettybird? Are you appreciated enough? Do people give you your "dues"?

Do you also mention your degree and university this often in conversation in real life? Perhaps wear your gown and mortar board when going to the chippy? Take your emoji covered certificate with you to the off-licence?

I mentioned it because it was relevant to the subject we were talking about: regional economic disparities.

You then raised the subject again in an attempt to disparage me.

But fine, it says more about you than me.

One aspect rather larger than Brexit and possible independence for Scotland is that the world has got a much more dangerous place since 911. The USA, Russia, China and ISIS are not necessarily friends and all would be happy to see a weakening of the EU, and for the UK to leave will be seen as a triumph for Russia at least, and a 'pleasant snack' for the others. I say ISIS and include other terrorist groups who might fancy establishing in Europe rather than the rather hot and not over fertile bits of the world they are in at the moment.
The UK dropping out of the EU security measures (which it will do if it becomes a 'third' country) will leave it particularly vulnerable.

Well I once got a picture shown on BBC TV's "Take Hart" and came 4th in egg and spoon race! 1982 was an incredible year.

You're a very, very clever thing prettybird. Don't let anyone make you feel any different - ever! Never have any doubts your chosen username and that deep, deep, deeply-rooted need to prove yourself.

Your favourite debating device You're being obtuse just proves how clever you are. Look at you! Knowing how to say "You're thick" in a slightly posher, more pretentious and erudite way to someone who might disagree with you.

Your professors must be bursting with pride.

54321go

One aspect rather larger than Brexit and possible independence for Scotland is that the world has got a much more dangerous place since 911. The USA, Russia, China and ISIS are not necessarily friends and all would be happy to see a weakening of the EU

Interesting. I am not sure that I buy into the view that the EU has contributed significantly to safety and security. I suspect that peace I Europe had more to do with Nato than the EU. Where was the EU during the Balkans crisis?

There is an excellent book called "The Age of Anger" by Pankaj Mishra which suggests that the election of Modi, Trump and the Brexit shock (and now Orban in Hungary) are all part of a pattern of the electorate sending an "f you" message to the establishment. You could argue this is what got Macron elected in France. I actually believe this will be a far more powerful force than ISIS or Putinin the second quarter of the 21st Century

m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2004959079576103&id=100001860923171

Are you sharing Mr Junker's repeatedly-asserted bibulous habits tonight Francine? You seem a little agitated.

Yes. It's because of the feelings of inadequacy that prettybird has aroused.

Francine please try to stop your digs at Prettybird. Your arseholery is showing and it's not attractive.

As for being unelected. Only the electorate of Maidenhead elected Theresa May, and that was to represent them, not to be PM. Even the Members of the Tory party didn't get to elect her as PM, although that was due to the others not putting up (Johnson, or being absolutely hopeless- Gove and Leadsome.) I didn't elect our House of Lords, or our Queen either, and can't see any way to change this. So I think all this about Juncker being 'unelected' which he isn't, is a distraction.

I've learnt a lot about the situation in Scotland from this thread. I would go along with Calyx too - stop the digs at Prettybird, except all it shows is that you haven't got any arguments when you resort to insults.

I recall about 18 months ago asking Leavers if they voted in the European elections. From memory I didn't get one person saying yes. I got some convoluted answers as to why they didn't i.e. making a protest because they didn't agree with it. As I pointed out at the time, going to the poll and spoiling your ballot makes it clear that you are protesting. Not going at all makes it look like you can't be bothered.

That is my answer to Juncker is unelected. Did you vote? If no, or duck answering my question, then don't bother to go on about him.

Calyx
But are are perfectly OK with ad hominems like "you're being obtuse" and "awa an tak a fuck tae yersel, hen" and "arseholery"?

Stick to the topic under discussion and do it like a grown up instead of telling me you have a fucking degree from fucking St Andrews.

Those comments were one-offs in response to specific replies of yours. Your digs are going on and on (illustrated by your most recent one there) and are mean and getting boring. You're showing yourself up and it's embarrassing.

Has turned into a very unpleasant thread.

Peregrina

As for being unelected. Only the electorate of Maidenhead elected Theresa May, and that was to represent them, not to be PM
But you could stand against her in Maidenhead at the election and give he voters a choice. There is a democratic mechanism, for you as an ordinary citizen get rid of her. There is no mechanism for me to get rid of Junker.

I didn't elect our House of Lords, or our Queen either
I would prefer the House of Lords were elected. However, the way it is set up (as a check and balance to the Commons) makes it clear where thw real power lies.

The Queen is a constitutional monarch in a parliamentary democracy. She is not permitted to interfere in the business of government or even express a political opinion.

I've been lurking on here, just wanted to say that I'm finding something very very familiar about the OP's style.

Calyx
Those comments were one-offs in response to specific replies of yours

I am happy to stick to the topic.

Peregrina
As I pointed out at the time, going to the poll and spoiling your ballot makes it clear that you are protesting. Not going at all makes it look like you can't be bothered.

But when it comes to electing MEPs, I really can't be bothered. That is factually correct.

You may have time to go along to a polling station in order to spoil a ballot paper. But this still gets counted that you "turned out". I would rather register my "protest" at the meaningless waste and irrelevance of the European Parliament by not participating in those elections at all (in common with millions of potential voters across Europe). They recognise it is a talking shop. For elections to the European Parliament - the old maxim definitely applies - "Don't vote! It only encourages them"