What is the solution to the Irish border?

[MegCleary]

Keen to hear, as I am struggling.

There isn't a charge for prescriptions in NI though there used to be (can't remember how long ago). We've (our family I mean) never paid for school books at primary or secondary, though there is a small monthly payment at secondary (again, can't remember but it is literally a few pounds).

Dental, opticians free at point of use for children and as a family, we really do appreciate the NHS. I can't see that one of our children in particular would have got the support required without it.

Yeah all those things cost a bloody fortune here Tentothree. Not to mention we pay through the nose for groceries, clothes etc compared to the UK. I have two lots of family in the UK and they have commented a couple of times (after wandering round the supermarket with me!) that they couldn't afford to live here. Saying that, I suppose wages here are higher but still it's expensive.

I don't think we could afford to not live in the uk. We have great free schools in our area and as I said, the health and social care may be beyond us financially otherwise. That actually worries me.

Grammar school uniforms however are another story!

Wages are higher on paper but in comparison to the cost of living, there is far less disposable income. I haven’t discussed optional —but are not optional— expenses like orthodontics costing €5K+ and I haven’t gouched on the cost of childcare. No low cost nursery schools in Ireland. Creche fees are €1100+ per month. Two children €2200 per month! There is the ECCE scheme which gives three hours of free preschool for two years IF your child’s birthday falls within their specified dates and if not one year. You still have to top it up for full time childcare.......,

Cabbage I was over visiting family in the UK in April and I thought the prices in Tesco were expensive compared to here! Things that are one euro here were a pound, or sometimes more. Just one example - I get specific Tesco own brand pasta for DS that's €0.89 here and it was £1.09. I would have expected it to be the other way around!

Forgot orthodontics. No charge for the children's braces in NI in our case.

Never saw that Apile I wonder did Tesco have some specials on ? Even on MN when people post about their weekly budget I'm reading about packets of pasta for 20p, packets of biscuits for 15p etc. And we actually do 60/70% of our shopping in Aldi!

I shop in Aldi too and I'm on a tight budget so I know the price of all the specific things I get in Tesco that Aldi don't have - or things that are the exact same price in Tesco as Aldi so I'll get them in Tesco because of getting Clubcard points, e.g. €2.19 for butter, pineapples are 99c in both, cucumbers are 59c in both... Pineapples were a pound in the UK and I think the cucumbers were more expensive too. I only know the prices of the things I buy though. I've no idea what the ordinary pasta costs in Aldi here but the one I'd buy is 89c same as Tesco. The Tesco one is nicer though. I probably wouldn't know the prices if I wasn't on such a tight budget. The butter was really expensive and SIL said they never really buy butter any more. I knew from MN that butter was expensive though. I did buy toothpaste and a toothbrush for DS and I thought they were cheap compared to here but I think they were on special offer.

As a middle manager teacher in NI my wages are £45000 but apparently in the south I would get the euro equivalent of over £60000. That sounds brilliant until you factor in all the extra taxes and charges so it may work out the same. Except don’t teachers down south get three months off in the summer? Have sometimes thought about relocating!

3 months for secondary, 2 months for primary. The salary scales are quite complicated now as new graduates had to start on lower salaries than previously. There's a bit of an equal pay for equal work movement at the moment AFAIK.

It would be interesting to sit down and see exactly how much tax you'd pay here on the same salary and factor in the cost of living etc.

Am I missing something
Did a pp say they pay €60 for gp (I pay €40)
And if gp refers you, you have to pay 150/200 to see a consultant or specialist?
I imagine you mean if you go private and not on the public waiting list?
Why do you have private health insurance if you then have to pay to see a specialist?
I'm

GP rates vary but some are definitely €60 or more! Consultants fees aren't covered by insurance and it's usually €150 per pop. I think you can claim 20% back though and I think you can wait on the waiting list if you want to. I've had quite a lot of free health care where there didn't seem to be any difference between public and private so I don't really get it, I'm just going off experience of family who had consultants for stuff. Any type of cancer seems to be completely free - I don't know about other conditions. DS was at the paediatrician a few times and that was all free but with waiting lists, but I asked did insurance make a difference and it didn't, there was just one list. DH has had ECGs done again with no charge. I'm not really sure what health insurance is for except private rooms and skipping waiting lists though I've seen signs up in public hospitals with how much it is per night, so I really actually don't understand if the state pays for everything if you don't mind waiting or are there things you'd have to pay for yourself if you don't have a medical card or insurance.

The private insurance - my daughter had a problem and was referred to a consultant by a GP. The option was wait over twelve months for a public (fee) consultant or use our private health insurance and becseen within a month! Obviously we wanted my daughter to be seen quickly as we were very worried about her as was the GP!

Likewise I needed to have a mole removed and sent for biopsy. I paid my GP €60 who referred me to a consultant who was €200. I was then referred for the treatment and my private health insurance paid for the actual procedure.

For care like maternity care, there is little difference other than with private health ins you (sometimes provided they don’t go on holidays) get to see the same consultant for every visit, you get more scans (amino one in every visit) and after you have the baby, you get a room with under four people if not by yourself.

I have family and many friends in the medical profession who all say they would stop paying their mortgage before they stopped paying their health insurance. The health system is a complete shambles, huge waiting lists, some lists are over two years long, misdiagnosis of serious illnesses, people on trolley beds for weeks in hospital corridors. The gov cut costs st every opportunity and can’t seem to rectify it, every health minister elected is blamed. Right now it is making headlines for sending cervical cancer screening to the US to be tested because it was cheaper but the US didnt fully check all of them and 209 (and rising) Irish women have been wrongly diagnosed resulting in the deaths of at least eighteen women, mothers of young children who are affected are speaking out raising awareness. The Irish gov tried hard to hide what had happened, let families bury their mother all the time knowing what had happened to her but didn’t tell anyone while LETTING it continue. It is a national scandal . The health system in Ireland is a disgrace.

Ok Pedro even with private health insurance you still have to pay for the consultant visit. If he decided to do a procedure or send you to hospital for an operation then your private health insurance kicks in. You could be waiting anything up to 18 months for a public appt, yet if you pay you could get an appt with in a week.

Anoi, it's a bit much when I am castigated for using the terms people on the thread forced me to use and then get criticised for doing so! It kind of proves my point that we need a very clear definitino of Ireland

"xenia your ignorance is astounding.

Different parts of Ireland do have different rules on things like student fees....clearly the rules differ between Ireland and Northern Ireland."

i used Ireland as I was told I had to use it above - as what I used to call Eire. The republic of ireland. I then distinguished within the UK between costs of things in NI, Scotland and England. I never said I thought issues like student fees were the same in ireland and NI which is why i suspect the only way to be understood in future is to refer to the Republic of Ireland or the republic or even heaven forfend eire.

Watching that's what I was saying - is the difference the waiting or is it the case that you could wait and then it's free? I can see that you definitely wouldn't want to wait when the waiting lists could be years! Agree about the cervical cancer smears - absolute disgrace.

I also find it hard to get my head around the public/private thing in the cases where it's the same hospital and consultant. I understand a private hospital with private consultants and using health insurance to go there but I don't understand the other system very well - who's paying for the facilities, or is it all private but the state pays for the use of the facilities or something?

Xenia whoever made that comment was the ignorant one and obviously hadn't read the thread either.

I found this article which explains we spend a decent amount on the health system compared to other countries but the system is (a) shit and (b) recovering from being very underfunded in the past.

www.google.ie/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/923592/

The difference is the waiting period AND often who you see. My daughter could have waited twelve months (we were later told it would be nearer eighteen months) to be seen and it would be free. Instead we paid and she was seen within a month. Privately you can often choose your consultant so if you a recommendation that Mr X is an expert in the field, you can choose to be seen by Mr X (provided he agrees to it too). Or you can wait a few years and if Mr X also works for a public hospital, you might be seen by him or more likely by one of the doctors under him. Doctors make more money by seeing private patients but can double their income by spending just one day a week in a public hospital too.

The same applies for therapy treatment. My child needed therapy for a specific condition. He could wait twelve months to start treatment publicly. If so he would get six to eight weeks therapy (thirty minutes per session) and then go back in a waiting list for another twelve months and wait to be called for another six to eight sessions. Alternatively we could pay for a private therapist and start treatment immediately and continue for as long as progress was being made. As early intervention was key, we chose to pay. That meant while we wanted to move house, DH wanted to change jobs but all was put on hold so our child could be seen. Of course this is a sacrifice all parents would make but it was as a result of the unnecessarily shamboluc healthcare system in Ireland.

And all the time there are cover ups and huge pensions being paid out to those ‘in charge’. It is corrupt.

This thread is so derailed!

I suspect the health system may have done better under the long Fianna Fáil government in the Celtic Tiger years if Mary Harney hadn't been pushing private health care as the way forward.

It wouldn't be as annoying if it wasn't the case that having private health care doesn't make a difference for some illnesses - when a close family member had a brain tumour there was a delay on getting a biopsy because there were no beds in the hospital. There were just no beds and no alternative either, no matter how much money or insurance he had. That was a good few years ago though.

• ETA in case I was not clear, my son could wait twelve months for six to eight weeks therapy of thirty minutes per session. That is ONE session per week. So he could wait twelve months and receive FIVE hours therapy in TOTAL in a twenty four month period.

Yes - I've paid privately for speech therapy for a 'moderate to severe' 'urgent' case - waiting list was a year. VHI paid back some small amount towards it.

Apileofballyhoo
The mention of Mary Harney and Bertie Ahearn give me the rage.
They fecked up the country good and proper and sailed off into the sunset with their fine big fat pensions and perks.
My family are still suffering the consequences.
I'm no Fine Gaeler, Labourite or Sinn Féiner either.
In fact there are a teeny tiny handful of Irish politicians I have time for and funnily enough they are all women bar one. And that one male has retired from politics and wasn't in my constituency anyway.

A lot of this is very similar to England. I pay for stuff the NHS is taking too long for - my son's foot issue etc. i don't have private insurance cover any more as we hardly ever used it as no one was often ill and it's been cheaper just to pay privately if NHS England cannot deal with the issue quickly enough and it feels not worth waiting.

Anyway thank you all for tolerating me on the thread as an English interloper. I've learnt a lot.

Most people I know in NI are happy with the NHS the vast majority of the time. Occasionally, people are prepared to pay for a private appointment when the need arises.

This is different from having to carry insurance all the time.

One of our children has had a lot of "therapy" type treatment and we've never had to pay for any of it (though have to wait to be called for an appointment).

The NHS along with good free schools and relatively low housing costs mean I'm quite happy with NI thanks!

In answer to the OP though, don't know!