What is the solution to the Irish border?

[MegCleary]

Keen to hear, as I am struggling.

"I think the article says Eire was dropped by the UK in 1949. RoI used after that."
I was born in England in 1972 and my birth certificate most decidedly says "Eire" as my father's place of birth. Whether that's what the UK government considered the official name at the time or not, it was obviously still being used officially.

To "answer" the OPs question - I'm pretty sure the only solution to the problem is to invent a time machine and go back to 1912, or whenever it was that the British government first came up with the idea of partition, and stop it from happening. However I'm willing to accept that this is probably not terribly practical. (Honestly, I know this was a flippant comment but I genuinely don't see there being any good solution. I've thought for some time that when [not if] Ireland is reunited it will be an economic decision not an ideological one, I still think that's true but Brexit has both sped up the timeline on that happening and, tragically, probably guaranteed that it will get violent.)

Sorry that was wrong I meant only around 25% of catholics want a united Ireland

Eire and Northern Ireland or
The Republic of Irevant and Northern Ireland

Those are two ways to distinguish the two (and I know from the above that many people don't like Eire unless they are speaking inthe language of my ancestors so although it was very commonly used in England and not to be offensive until fairly recently I will stop using it).

No one should be censored from giving their views surely? It is a free country in both countries.

This has made me think. I've never heard anyone in N Ireland refer to Eire. Even many years ago when I was wee it's not something I ever heard. Maybe Ian Paisley or someone, but I can't even quite remember him saying it either.

Older people did have a tendency to refer to the Free State but that's more a case of still remembering what they were taught at primary school and saying it automatically, rather than deliberately being offensive, and obviously that died out in the end.

Éire - Air-reh - Ireland. Eire - Err-reh - burden/load. All I'm saying is the correct spelling makes a different to pronunciation, so even when the UK were using 'Eire' they weren't spelling it correctly. Bríste - trousers briste - broken. Cáca - cake caca - (of) excrement. Do - to/for dó - two.

It is NOT Southern Ireland. It is Ireland. The six counties are NI.

The talk of unified Ireland annoys me a little, there was no talk of it before but because of brexit it seems to be an option now, why? Peter Robinson brought it up during the weekend and the response by a lot of posters was horrendous. Mocking and name calling and innuendo that Irish people aren't smart. All i can see is a lot of hatred and contempt from a percentage of people from Northern Ireland and the talks of unification will stir up more hatred. As another poster said 25% of Catholics in the North didn't want a United Ireland and were happy with the status quo before brexit, so because they weren't happy with the result of brexi t it has become a serious option.
So how would it work? Do Ireland have to bend over backwards to appease a certain percentage in NI .Are people in the North willing to suddenly pay for gp, hospitals and precriptions. Are they willing to pay for school books and uniforms or would there be one rule for northern Ireland and another for the rest of Ireland? It might sound petty to some but it needs to be discussed. Would i want an united Ireland, yes but not at the risk of violence returning and not as answer to brexit. The only way a United Ireland could ever happen is that the majority of people genuinely want it.

It does seem perverse that the majority in NI were strongly in favour of Remain, yet because the DUP, who are propping up the Tories, support Leave, there is now a real possibility of a unified Ireland and the breakup of the UK, which is of course, completely the opposite of everything that the DUP stand for.

There won’t be a united Ireland because of Brexit. A civil war didn’t result in it, Brexit certainly won’t.

Are people in the North willing to suddenly pay for gp, hospitals and precriptions.

Well Ireland is on the way to introducing universal healthcare anyway and you only pay for gp, hospital and prescriptions (apart from €2 prescription charge) if your income is above a certain amount. If you have a long term health condition you get the stuff for that for free regardless of your income.

There's also free GP for under 6 and over 70 (I think) regardless of income. My DM has free GP and she is above the threshold otherwise but she's over 75 so I'm not sure of the rules.

There's also free GP but not prescriptions for people that are over the income threshold for the free prescriptions though I think it might be discretionary.

There's a back to school allowance for books and uniform too if your income is below a certain amount.

But I do think it will eventually be largely an economic decision for a lot of people. And that includes people from the 26 counties as the vote has to be all the island of Ireland according to the GFA.

Seriously the threshold for a medical card is very low (266 euros for a couple), gp card is better but not by much. No you don't get it for free of you have a long term illness. Medical cards are means tested no matter what. There can be discretionary medical cards but they are nearly impossible to get.Yes there is the back to school allowance but it is paltry compared to school cost. A first year student going into secondary books can be nearly a thousand euros not to mention the cost of uniforms. I paid 70euros for a crested jumper and school pants at the weekend. The allowances you mentioned are in place for low earners but do you honestly think people in Northern Ireland who are on middle income will be happy to pay? So what happens then?

I didn't know school uniforms were free in NI.

The thresholds for free GP vary according to circumstances and living expenses like rent and traveling to work expenses are allowed against your income.

www.hse.ie/eng/cards-schemes/medical-card/how-much-you-can-earn/

And there is definitely a scheme for those with certain long term illnesses where the medication is free.

www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/drugs_and_medicines/long_term_illness_scheme.html

Apileo Uour post sounds like something the Irish Gov publish on a leaflet when running for election. To qualify for a medical card you have to be on an extremely low income, an income that means you have a very low lifestyle. Otherwise you pay €60 per GP visit, €30+ for a second visit for the same issue, and you pay for your medicine. A long term illnesses asthma, you still pay the same. A back to school allowance is again for the low income families only. And low income means you can’t afford to buy a property or privately rent. You are put on a long term (years!) housing list and if a house isn’t available, you are homeless. Literally. People sleep in their cars. Families sleep in their cars. Ireland is not a country you want to be poor in.

I believe in the UK at present you must pay for your own diabetes medication if you aren't on benefits, whereas here you get it free regardless of income.

Maybe that's not UK wide though.

The long term illness card only covers the disabilities that are mentioned full stop and doesn't cover gp visits. Ireland is a wonderful country but it is expensive and middle income families pay for everything, would people from NI be happy with that it would allowance be made for them and would that be fair to the rest of us who have to pay. I know this seems petty but there would be a lot to work out

The cost of healthcare would definitely be off-putting for us in the north who are currently used to the NHS. I can't see many people being able to stomach that, even if they generally support the concept of a united Ireland.

School uniforms sound pretty similar though, it costs us hundreds to kit our DD out in school uniform. PE kit in particular.

In the south some women can't even get an old age pension.
My grand aunt can't get one. Something to do with pre 1953 ( she got married in '53 and was a stay at home Mum )
Widows and old age pension are means tested somehow. Her contributory pension didn't have enough stamps or something.
Yet our politicians can get big fat pensions at 50.

Watching I live here and I am aware of the housing crisis and the lack of government action. I've been poor here, thanks. I'm just providing information on what is available re healthcare. I don't know how it compares to NI.

I'm aware the middle income people are screwed here with expensive rents and very little hope of saving enough for a deposit and lack of job security for getting a mortgage. I know because I've been exactly there. I know we had to move into an absolute shit hole when our landlord sold the house we'd been renting for years.

My DH has a long term illness and we didn't know he was eligible for that scheme so we were paying €80 a month for medication unnecessarily for years. And I know how much the GP costs. (No medical card, no GP card, just stuck in the middle income no help, no hope, no anything bracket.)

But as I said there is work ongoing to provide universal health care.

bean there's a contributory pension and a non contributory pension, the latter is means tested. So if she didn't make contributions and her income is above the threshold she won't get anything.

So school uniforms aren't free treacle? What about school books?

I have never been happy that the 80% of us of the uK in England have to pay through the nose for all sorts including student fees and pescription charges whereas other parts of the UK don't when we are supposed to be the same country. That certainly should end.

That was a misunderstanding from me, I remember reading an article from someone from the UK who had moved to Ireland and she was shocked at the cost of schooling here compared to the uk .
Losing the nhs would be a huge loss to the North, our health system while as a nation we spend a fortune on is in shambles. Our waiting lists are huge unless you can afford to go private. what else would be lost or what else would be gained from a United Ireland. For instance here we pay bin charges but not water charges, we also pay property tax. What stuff do ye pay or not pay for up in NI. Do your schools provide hot lunches for free? Some schools here who would be classed in poorer areas have a free lunch scheme but most schools you have to give your child a packed lunch. As others have said there is a major housing crisis especially in the big cities. Rents are through the roof at the moment and it's hard to get a mortgage.

How is that Xenia, I always presumed that no matter where you were in the UK the rules were the same. It's terrible if it's not

Schoolbooks, uniforms and even ‘voluntary contributions’ are not available in Ireland unless on very low incomes.

However lack of job security? Your post is contradictory. It is either a permanent role or its not and if permanent for a certain amount of time, there is as much job security as anywhere else. And once permanent for 12 months (might have changed) you will be eligible for a mortgage. That doesn’t mean of course you will be able to afford a house or at least a house where you would like to own a house which proves another problem as the infrastructure is so rubbish outside of Dublin and that is where most of the jobs are.

I think Scotland is better than England, Eeny. That's another thing in Ireland, university is cheaper.

I'd imagine in the event of reunification there would be a lot of work to bring all the systems together. Some of bodies established under the GFA were doing this kind of thing. I believe children's heart conditions are now in an all Ireland system based in Dublin, or they were going to be but now there's doubt over it.

I know the NHS is underfunded too and possibly in danger of being privatised, but maybe it's not as bad as the HSE, particularly in NI - like Xenia said, different rules in different parts of the UK.