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Brexit

AIBU yo wish that Tony Blair would come back?

96 replies

Toysintheattic29 · 10/07/2018 18:10

We have a weak PM, albeit a woman, who is clinging on for dear life to control of her party. We have no Opposition. Corbyn, who has his own pathetic Trotskyist agenda, is doing nothing when he could seize the moment and turn the tide against Brexit. We do have some opposing forces in the form of the Lib Dem’s, but they don’t seem strong enough to effect change despite trying hard. What we need is someone like Tony Blair, an experienced politician and who has the clout to put forward an argument convincing enough to stir people into action and rid us of the half-baked lot on both sides. We also need someone who is truthful and can inspire confidence. What about the Iraq war? Tony Blair is a big enough Politician to have admitted his mistakes on Iraq and acknowledged he could have done things differently. Come Back Tony, the U.K. desperately needs you!

OP posts:
Ilovewhippets · 11/07/2018 10:34

And he can take that insufferable arsehole Alaistair Campbell with him.
Yes!

topcat1980 · 11/07/2018 12:05

The problem with trying Tony Blair as a war criminal is for a number of reasons he cannot be classified as one.

Most of all the crime of "aggression" that they were prosecuted for at Nuremberg came off the statute in 1998 with the creation of the ICC The new definition was delayed till 2010 when it came back on to the statute.

The law cannot be applied retrospectively.

In terms of "war crimes" it was necessary for Blair to have been aware of war crimes on the battlefield and havbe known of the crimes and failed to take reasonable steps to prevent them.

So the whole "Blair is a war criminal" stuff is countercfactual hyperbole.

Whatever Blair was, he is a damned sight better than any of the shower of shit that we have right now.

NameChanger22 · 11/07/2018 12:13

I liked Tony Blair. I think, with hindsight, he probably made a mistake or two. I think he's better than what we have now.

Corbyn doesn't want to be PM at this time (who in their right mind would?). He's being rubbish on purpose. He's like all those men who pretend they're no good at housekeeping so they never have to do it.

Tony Blair would either have a second referendum or just abandon Brexit without even asking us.

DieAntword · 11/07/2018 12:18

I often think that no contemporary politicians have anything on even politicians from a few decades back.

But then I think it's an illusion created by the media. Back then politicians still primarily presented themselves through speeches... nowadays everything (even off twitter) is people trying to get their point across in 120 characters or less.

LuMarie · 11/07/2018 12:21

I think he is bordering on war criminal...

but yes, he would be good news and I would like him there at the moment.

Says it all.

bellinisurge · 11/07/2018 12:29

We need Yvette Cooper, not Tony Blair.

LimboLuna · 11/07/2018 12:43

It’s not just Iraq though is it. On his watch;
He helped fuck the housing market, sub prime mortgages where people were borrowing multiples of their wages and housing benefit changes pushed the start of the housing boom.

Tax credits, helped keep wages low created people dependent on them. Clearly unsustainable at the level introduced and pushed.

Open boarders again pushing housing issues, job issues and if we’d had more control I doubt people would have felt the need to vote Brexit.

The big issue, each party is looking at 4 years of votes. They aren’t looking at what’s best for 30 /40 years. It’s unpopular but they are consistently fire fighting. A lot of thatchers decisions are now causing us even more issues. The same with Blair’s.

topcat1980 · 11/07/2018 12:49

He helped fuck the housing market:

Sub prime mortgages were available before this, home ownership peaked in 2001, under Blair's leadership.

"helped keep wages low created people dependent on them. "
Wages grew every year of Blair's term. For low and higher workers.

"Open boarders again pushing housing issues, job issues and if we’d had more control I doubt people would have felt the need to vote Brexit. "

We have never had open borders, we are not part of Schenged.

EU immigration does not cause uenmployment in domestic nationals, nor does it effect wages except for an extremely small decrease in wage rises for the poorest.

Using the Governments own research immigration between 1991 and 2016 immigration has caused house prices to increase by 21 percent (cumulative) but that house prices in all rose 320 percent over this time. So year on year increase of 0.84 % per year, whilst other factors caused an 11.96% increase per year.

Sorry, but immigration from the EU isn't the issue people make it out to be.

LimboLuna · 11/07/2018 12:52

Sorry, but immigration from the EU isn't the issue people make it out to be.
*
It depends where you live

topcat1980 · 11/07/2018 13:03

What problems do you think there are from EU immigration then?

sonlypuppyfat · 11/07/2018 13:07

It's Blaires fault we're in this mess to start with, letting everyone one in. How many spud pickers and car washers do we need. I went to a car boot sale last week and I never heard an English voice once

topcat1980 · 11/07/2018 13:08

How is Blair responsible for FOM?

What negative effects does EU immigration have? Really, not perceived effects?

Talkstotrees · 11/07/2018 13:13

I agree with SoapBoxQueen and Topcat. And someone else but I can’t remember who (def not sonlypuppyfat tho)

LimboLuna · 11/07/2018 14:39

So you didn’t see all the leave propaganda about immigrants?
The propaganda around it fed into the narrative of the leave campaign.
It was mentioned upthread as well.
The sudden influx of Eastern European migrants is a reason some people chose to vote leave.
Some areas are struggling to house and for there to be enough “unskilled” (hate that phrase) work. If you live in one of those areas you may feel immigration is an issue.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 11/07/2018 14:43

Leave voting areas generally had low levels of immigration so the idea that "johnny foreigner stole my house and job" is a load of bigoted bollocks.

There is now a shortage of fruit pickers in some areas as unemployment is low and less migrants are coming to basket case Brexit Britain.

mostdays · 11/07/2018 14:59

I lived in Fenland for a long time.

Before 2004, there were EU workers in all the factories and fields. They were just illegal. They worked for gangers for slave wages. There were lots and lots and lots of them and anyone who says otherwise is a barefaced liar; as a student I worked alongside them in my holiday jobs from the start of sixth form to the end of uni.

Post 2004, there were EU workers in all the factories and fields. They were legal now. They could have their families here and demand the minimum legal wage and stand up for themselves when treated like shit at work and stand up for themselves when bullied, attacked, harrassed and discriminated against outside of work as they no longer had to fear deportation if the police were involved. That is what the people of Fenland hated- not that there were EU nationals in the factories and fields as there had been previously and will be in the future, but that these EU nationals now had rights and had to be treated like people. They hate that languages other than English can be heard on the streets of the town and that shops selling European produce exist, but most of all they hate the idea that foreign nationals can be regarded as and must be treated as equals.

topcat1980 · 11/07/2018 15:01

The "Sudden influx" of Eastern European migrants?

Eastern Euopean migrants make up about 2% of the entire population, and this happened over a number of years.

Its hardly sudden.

The whole blaming immigrants for housing issues and unemployment is bogus, and its exactly the same thing people said about the Windrush generation, it wasn't true then and it isn't now.

The leave propaganda was bogus and it pandered to people's prejudices.

Which is funny cause the areas with the highest levels of immigration voted remain.

bellinisurge · 11/07/2018 15:07

My family came from Eastern Europe in the 1890s. How sudden of them!

sonlypuppyfat · 11/07/2018 15:09

2% ? Not where I live

GeorgeIII · 11/07/2018 15:29

I don’t know why all these people who love multiculturalism and welcome immigrants don’t just move to a foreign country then they’ll be surrounded by people with a different culture and language.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 11/07/2018 15:37

I don’t know why all these people who love multiculturalism and welcome immigrants don’t just move to a foreign country then they’ll be surrounded by people with a different culture and language.

Given that multi-culturalism is ingrained in Britsh life and history its probably the so called "patriots" that need to piss off.

LimboLuna · 11/07/2018 15:52

I’m not saying those people were right to feel that way or vote that way. But European immigration was one of the lead issues vote leave used.

As for immigration not putting pressure on housing no not strictly immigration, but An increased population and not building houses will cause pressure. However the population increases, birth or immigration those people need to be housed somewhere.

PineappleSunrise · 11/07/2018 15:58

Comments like "you should leave to be surrounded by foreigners" completely miss the point. The children of "foreigners" are British. That's how immigration works. You have imported people to get more British people in the future. It's an investment, not a loss.

mostdays · 11/07/2018 16:54

*I don’t know why all these people who love multiculturalism and welcome immigrants don’t just move to a foreign country then they’ll be surrounded by people with a different culture and language.

Don't need to- I just moved to a large, outward looking, multicultural city full of people from all over the world. It's brilliant. Far better than being surrounded by a bunch of spiteful, limited xenophobes :)

time4chocolate · 11/07/2018 17:40

Article on Labour and immigration during TB/GB’s leadership (written in 2015) - its lengthy.

www.theguardian.com/news/2015/mar/24/how-immigration-came-to-haunt-labour-inside-story