Westministenders: High Drama at The Ok Coral

[RedToothBrush]

3:00 p.m. Wednesday, October 26, 1881, Tombstone, Arizona.

After months of death threats from the Cowboy Billys, their long simmering feud with the law thing came to a head. The Earp Brothers and Doc Holliday faced the criminals down in a shootout.

Tomorrow's 'sleepover' is starting to feel like the Gunfight at the OK Coral.

The outcome of the real story was three of the outlaws were killed. Another two claimed they were unarmed and ran from the fight. Virgil, Morgan, and Doc Holliday were wounded, but Wyatt Earp was unharmed.

How many Brexiteers can we expect to roll over and resign from the Cabinet and how many will surrender to May and the Pro-Business lobby? ONly time will tell.

Please place your bets for the number of resignations and the number of 'I support the PM' comments.

But don't get too excited. The showdown wasn't the end of the matter.

One of the outlaws who legged it, filed murder charges against the Earps and Doc Holliday. It took them some time for them to be acquitted.

Then Virgil Earp was ambushed and disabled in the arm later that year in December and Morgan Earp was assassinated in March 1882. Wyatt Earp, then thinking he had no other option, went on a personal vendetta to kill the outlaws and then fled the state.

Given the Tory Cabinet and the perchant for stabbing each other in the back and settling personal scores, a repeat of a wild west gun fight, really doesn't sound too wildly off the cards now does it?

Buckle up. Its time to play at Chequers.

'brexit must mean brexit' ; doesn't make sense, chris, mate.

I had faith that 52% of the voting public clearly knew something I didn’t.

I don't wish to be rude ... but why on earth would you believe that? The lie about the NHS was exploded the very next day - leavers knew the lies you had disregarded and failed to disregard them. With that as your starting point - why would you think they knew more than you?

I can understand hoping for the best. I can even understand burying your head in the sand ... but what did you think when the over spending of the Leave campaign was exposed? or the illegal activity of Cambridge analytica? or the shady links to the Russians? or the rise in hate crimes that followed the vote? or the problems with the Irish border and the threat to the GFA? Or last month when the govt document was leaked that revealed in the event of no deal we would run out of food in two days? or the fact that we have less than 9 months left and still haven't agreed anything - and it all has to be agreed by October - and the politicians are about to go on their summer jollys? Or the fact that we would be forced out of the Galileo project? and Europol? that we had lost the European Medical agency (and will have problems getting meds)? That pulling out of Euratom would mean we wouldn't be able to treat cancer - and that our power supply would be shaky? That planes might not be able to fly post brexit? Or simply that the pound has been steadily losing value since the referendum and the cost of living has gone up?
Why in the face of all of that would anyone believe that the 52% must know more than they did - and not believe that the 52% were lied to?

It terrifies me how much people have not been paying attention. If today has finally raised awareness - then it is a good thing.

red < indignant > I have heard of Chris Green
Mind you, he's no loss
Same as the rest if the detritus

Peregrina I was reminded today listening to Boris' aide, Connor somebody? -Loudly exclaiming about "The (hard) Brexit 17 million people wanted" (and how upset and angry they'd all be if they didn't get it), and I thought that frankly, if I were a Brexiter, I'd find that a bit offensive, given that no one had any real idea what Brexit would actually mean...

In fact, I think, on that fateful day, 17m people wandered into their booth, stubby pencil in hand and went 'Hmm, now how do I imagine Brexit will be like? Which grab-bag, pic'n'mix of half formed ideas do I think my Brexit will look like? I'll vote for that!'

Every single Brexiter I know says things like 'Oh no, that thing won't happen', or 'This thing will'- like anyone actually knows. The difference being that those who voted Remain knew exactly what they were getting!

Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak
Claims there are more than 80 Tory MPs at ERG meeting tonight after what sounds like largely loyal meeting of all back benchers earlier with PM

@MyNameDefinatelyIsntJanet

I admire you for trying to knock some sense into hey but it's a bit pointless so most people around here just ignore their GF tendancies.

I am interested in the reasons for your alligence though. You've disclosed a lot about yourself on other threads and, on paper, you're more aligned with Remain (under 30, service industry).

What do you think Brexit will offer you?

Yes I know someone who voted brexit, expecting to remain. They felt that the country usually voted for the status quo and that remain would win. They wanted reform in the EU and thought a close result for remain would strengthen the UK government 's hand in pushing for it.

There are a myriad of reasons why people voted leave.

I wonder if there are a whole
host of chris’s lurking in the transport department - Chris grayling, Chris Green and perhaps a Chris purpleish?

The Tory Party is so split they couldn't even all turn up at the same meeting over todays events.

Yeah, my inlaws voted for the NHS bus lie. They feel pretty bad about that now.

As comedic predictions go, this one may well pan out

@TechnicallyRon
Monday - Johnson resigns
Tuesday - Entire cabinet resigns
Wednesday - May resigns
Thursday - Queen abdicates due to lack of interest
Friday - Trump is taken to Madame Tussauds and told the Queen is just very still in real life

Re Nigel Farage coming back as UKIP leader - I am now convinced that everything he says from now on will be carefully calculated to hinder brexit.
Since brexit he has lost everything - his relevance, his wife, his future as an MEP - and his pension is being held hoistage due to his own misspendings, his cosy relationship with Trump. In short Brexit has been an unmitigated disaster for him ( and it was always going to be - if you have only one political goal in life then achieving that goal renders you obsolete) I have said before, and i firmly believe: NF voted remain.

But if brexit is cancelled - it all comes back. He has his fight again. He gets his party back - and his adoring followers. He can be reelected as an MEP and start swindling more money.

If brexit goes ahead- he'll be lurking in some distant corner of the world, hiding from what he has caused and ducking responsibility. And it had better be distant - South America wasn't far enough for Trotsky, was it?

Watch out for him starting to talk much more about a second referendum - to 'save' brexit.

I know people who voted leave because they felt the country had too many immigrants, despite living in a almost entirely white English area, I know people who voted leave because they were sure remain would win but it would help us to get more from Europe and people who voted leave because they hated the government. It was wasn't a vote which set a clear path to follow and there hasn't been any sensible effort at consensus building since.

As ever in this ridiculous Brexit government soap opera, the EU's reaction to today's developments is coming across as rather more grown up than our own leadership's:

EU reacts with dismay to British Brexit chaos -
Officials stress difficulty of agreeing deal by October and warn of mounting uncertainty

www.ft.com/content/e3c15724-838f-11e8-96dd-fa565ec55929

It does feel like they are on the edge of asking us, "U alright hun?"

Ever since May laid out her red lines, I've been expecting Brexit to be a sharp reality check about UK power, like Suez

However, the economic consequences of Suez - the US punishing the UK via Sterling - were fleeting
The political conseqences were to turn the UK permanently from having an independent foreign policy into a US poodle

A no-deal Brexit may blight the economy for a generation
I cannot estimate the political consequences of such a national trauma

North has even referred to no-deal as a possible tipping point, after which the UK may go spiralling down and stay there
We've discussed the classic example of bad decisons turning a 1st world country into a permanent basket case: Argentina

Paul Waugh @paulwaugh
Mogg tells the private meeting of fellow Brexiteers: "I will vote AGAINST the Brexit deal on a Monday and vote FOR confidence [in the PM] on the Tuesday"

Rees Mogg just told ERG that he will NEVER vote against May in a vote of no confidence

Toryese to Plain English Translation:
Mogg is seriously considering a leadership bid.

Did he lose so much ? Remember these antics …

Farage denies purposely misleading the nation when he conceded defeat on EU referendum night amid claims hedge funds made billions betting on Brexit after buying secret exit polls

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5883293/Farage-denies-misleading-UK-conceding-Brexit-defeat-help-hedge-funds-make-money.html

And another resignation:

Conor Burns MP@ConorBurnsUK
I've enjoyed a fantastic year as PPS to @BorisJohnson and six years as PPS to five different Ministers.
I've decided it's time to have greater freedom. I want to see the referendum result respected. And there are others areas of policy I want to speak more openly on.

The idea that May has survived and won't face a leadership challenge because Brady hasn't got 48 letters is decidedly pre-mature...

So anyone else think it is now a countdown to a backdown ? First time I have mentioned it on this particular thread , but Brexit isn't going to happen, anyone who has rabidly aligned themselves with it will be running for cover

I know people who voted leave because they felt the country had too many immigrants, despite living in a almost entirely white English area, I know people who voted leave because they were sure remain would win but it would help us to get more from Europe and people who voted leave because they hated the government. It was wasn't a vote which set a clear path to follow and there hasn't been any sensible effort at consensus building since.

Me too. Particularly the ones who wanted to "stick it to the establishment" but didn't really expect the numbers to come out in favour of leaving

Mogg? God help us.

bear oringinally, nothing and now, nothing.

In the middle bit, I briefly believed in democracy. I believed that the will of the people had to be respected despite the fact that will was different from my own. It was the calls for a second referendum and the dismissal of Brexit voters beliefs that pushed me to be wholey against the remain camp for a time.

Then i realised that actually, I was turning an extremely complex legal process into a binery ‘us against them’ issue because of the rhetoric I was being exposed to. I started thinking and researching things from the Brexit side of things to try and understand and even though Brexit was never my choice, about a year ago I began to understand what the ideal Brexit would look like and why that seemed preferable to remaining in an EU that’s been blamed (often wrongly) for our governments political failings for a generation.

Nails were being driven into that coffin regularly thanks to brexitcast and a few other sources that even though relatively unbiased, still couldn’t paint a positive picture or the process or outcomes.

Today was the final nail in that coffin and alas, I’m now unable to see a bright side. I think actually I’m possibly an indication that a few other on the fencers and brexiteers even may shift to a remain stance after today.

Too many Tories have moved their investments abroad and / or are advising their clients to do likewise,
e.g. JRM, Redwood

Too many would actually profit from a UK disaster

(story last month) Brexiteer Odey bets £500m AGAINST British businesses: Rees-Mogg backer hopes to gain from ‘short’ stakes in shares he believes will fall

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/investing/article-5824697/Brexiteer-Odey-bets-500m-AGAINST-British-businesses.html

Hedge fund tycoon Crispin Odey
– who recently demanded Theresa May’s eviction from No 10 saying she couldn’t be trusted to carry Brexit through –
stands to make huge profits from the woes of the UK economy, The Mail on Sunday an reveal

His firm Odey Asset Management has taken out more than £500 million ‘short’ positions
– which are essentially a gamble that a share price will fall –
on some of Britain’s biggest firms, implying that he expects a poor performance from them.
…
Odey’s apparent lack of confidence in flagship British firms
stands in marked contrast to his fund’s investments in other countries, including France, Germany and the US,
where he is mainly backing shares to rise.

Mogg is seriously considering a leadership bid
www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/jacob-rees-mogg-steps-up-12845133
Mogg's hiring PR and has allegedly raised 750k war chest. Wonder who from?

Thanks for the reply not Janet - interesting.