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Brexit

Westminstenders: Don't Panic!

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 21/06/2018 08:04

It's official

Brexit is like an episode of Dads Army with the government, being Captain Mainwaring's trusty band of elite forces doing battle against the evil Mr Barnier.

Yesterday Parliament gave back control to the executive as it surrendered parliamentary sovereignty to Janus faced May. Grieve, it has to be said, truly did look like a broken man as he gave his speech in the commons. Not that we should have too much sympathy. After all he did just put party before country.

So where are we now? The ERG are happy. They have successfully bullied enough until everyone else gave up and folded. They now have no incentive to compromise, as they know that no one can stand up to them. They want no deal, and it's no deal they will force.

The EU are thoroughly fed up and it's difficult to see them do anything but cut us loose saying Brexit means Brexit, this is what you wanted. They have stepped up planning for no deal and their plans were already much more advanced than ours.

We go into the next round of talks with a solution to the Irish Border looking further away than ever. Not helped by the fact that brexit nationalism is restricted to England alone, with many being happy to let NI be sunk into the Irish sea and the favour the rebuilding of Hadrian's wall in order to keep out the foreigners.

It's hard to resist simply sitting down wailing "we doomed". But try to resist and keep saying, you are against this crap. If only so history books don't just say we all agreed to this clusterfuck.

Here have a fluffy bunny to help comfort you.

Westminstenders: Don't Panic!
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DGRossetti · 21/06/2018 16:19

goodness there's a little 'we' re so good' creeping into this thread - ive worked across the world and everywhere has its quirks

I hope nothing I've said comes across as implying anything other than different. It's managing differences, not ability. I have seen some shit code written in house in the UK, as well as some quite elegant code from abroad.

mozzybites · 21/06/2018 16:22

I think what I was trying to say is that European work practices have a lot more in common culturally with the U.K., particularly our near neighbours than Mexico does. This is my personal observation having seen both in action, there are also significant issues around corruption in Mexico and some other Latin American countries. It isn't about being morally superior so much as being upfront about some of the challenges we are going to face. It isnt hard to see how you end up in that situation in a country where it is thought almost everyone in politics from the president down takes large amounts of money from corrupt sources, you routinely have to pay off police officers and justice and often be both bought and sold. Where is the harm in you having your share in the system? What protects you is your personal relationships and network of connections you have. It is a very different system to navigate and I do feel the difficulty of doing so is being completely glossed over by Liam Fox and the like.

DGRossetti · 21/06/2018 16:26

subjectively apart from the issues with Mumbai English

Business english is well worth learning. Although I know some people who insisted they "didn't need it" as they were English. Underscoring my point upthread about the apparent proliferation of less bright people at times.

RedToothBrush · 21/06/2018 16:34

English is a bloody stupid language.

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Hasenstein · 21/06/2018 16:35

Olennaswimple

You'd have thought so, wouldn't you? But when DW's initial application for permanent residence was rejected (after 40 years living here), we took the matter to our local MP. Unfortunately, he's absolutely useless (Tory aparatchnik, now rewarded with junior minister status for his loyalty) and basically said it was our fault for not sending the correct supporting documentation (joint bank account statements are apparently not good enough, nor is a letter from HMRC confirming she'd been paying NI since 1978, but hey, what did we know?).

In short, he advised us to suck it up and try again. He was completely uninterested in helping and couldn't get us out of his office quickly enough.

We've also complained to him at the rude and demeaning treatment she (and other candidates) experienced at the Life in the UK Test (subcontracted to Learn Direct Ltd.). He said he would write to the responsible department (NOT the Home Office, as it's been outsourced Hmm). That was a couple of months ago, but haven't heard anything yet.

DGRossetti · 21/06/2018 16:35

As for UK contractors cvs being works of fiction, DH also wouldn't disagree on that one.

Doesn't really matter anyway, as most go through agencies that seem to apply keyword matching, and nothing else. (Idly wonders if any humans are involved, or whether "Google Staff" is now a noun as well as a verb)

RedToothBrush · 21/06/2018 16:39

Hasenstein, at what point do you involve the press?

Would you if it came to it?

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DGRossetti · 21/06/2018 16:40

English is a bloody stupid language.

My DF would agree Grin. Mind you, he can rattle off quite a few dialects, which tends to fox people who think they can speak Italian ...

TheElementsSong · 21/06/2018 16:44

Well I don’t know what everyone is so concerned about - I’m getting the impression from our Leaver friends that all we need for Brexit Success is some jolly slogans and motivational posters.

Details? Expertise? Pah!

54321go · 21/06/2018 16:54

Quick test here.
Hands up anyone that thinks Britain (currently) is one of the biggest trading nations in the world.
Please discuss it in 'Not the Brexit Arms'.

frankiestein401 · 21/06/2018 16:59

Apologies - i misread the sentiment - like many brits i'm monolingual with a totally compromised dialect.

Whoever ive worked with i'm all too aware that those whose native language is not English are bilingual, It just feels like common courtesy to try and understand their cultural position given that they've done me the favour of speaking my language.

The classic uk team bonding - going down the pub - is a good example - several cultutes see it as 'common' - whether or not there are religious constraints!

DGRossetti · 21/06/2018 17:02

The classic uk team bonding - going down the pub - is a good example

Maybe my non-English half kicking in then ... I've never been into that. (Also, it's a classic misogynistic trick ... how many women feel comfortable ?)

Scoopofchaff · 21/06/2018 17:02

We may not have a problem with officials stuffing their pockets with bribes, but when it comes to corruption the UK is not exactly immune.

DGRossetti · 21/06/2018 17:05

Hands up anyone that thinks Britain (currently) is one of the biggest trading nations in the world. Please discuss it in 'Not the Brexit Arms'.

If you used the word "thinking" in there, you'd be wasting your time.

Why bother "thinking" ? Why not just do some work, and research it ...

www.wto.org/english/res_e/statis_e/wts2016_e/wts2016_e.pdf

Peregrina · 21/06/2018 17:19

Mind you, I don't like going down the pub either, because I only drink in extreme moderation, and I'm a woman.

TheElementsSong · 21/06/2018 17:22

Who needs to think when a few pithy soundbites are sufficient to reshape the universe around you?

RedToothBrush · 21/06/2018 17:41

God, I'd be the first one down the pub for team bonding! I'm not a big drinker either (mainly cos I can't hold it). I'm happy being on the soft drinks if I have to. Mainly because I have the problem of how the fuck to get home if I'm not driving because of where I live. Taxis not really being an option, because of the cost rather than safety.

But then I used to regularly go to gigs by myself and never drank (couldn't afford alcohol as well as the ticket).

Its really never bothered me, despite being a woman, because it was a key part of the culture I was involved in.

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54321go · 21/06/2018 17:44

@DGR
I didn't want to know myself and I was trying to get some of the rational bods on this thread to look at some of the 'We won get over it' sentiment on the other thread. You seem to think I wanted to know. I already know that traveling towards a wall at speed is going to hurt, some leavers don't seem to have grasped this yet but it is me that is thick.......
However, from table A6, I see that the UK (in 2016) was about 9th for exports and managed about a third of what Germany exported.
Comparisons are a bit difficult because as an EU member (not for much longer folks!) the figures were lumped in with the other 27 countries for many catagories.
I don't think the people who write this up have much difficulty sleeping.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/06/2018 18:00

Simon Coveney (RoI Deputy PM):

"there will be no withdrawal agreement, no transition agreement and no managed Brexit
if the British government do not follow through on their clear commitments in writing to Ireland and the whole EU.”

“We have been reassured over and over again that Ireland will not be left isolated here.”

www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/tánaiste-warns-of-no-deal-brexit-as-negotiations-stall-1.3538765

European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker has warned the UK there will be no Brexit deal without agreement on the Irish border.

On a visit to Dublin, Juncker said

"This is not a bilateral question between Ireland the United Kingdom - this is an issue between the UK and the European Union,"
"We want to make it clear again and again that Ireland is not alone.

We have Ireland backed by 26 member states and the Commission - this will not change.

"I am strongly against any temptation to isolate Ireland < the UK working behind the scenes ? > and not to conclude the deal on Ireland.
"Ireland has to be part of the deal."

http://www.irishnews.com/news/brexit/2018/06/21/news/no-brexit-deal-without-border-agreement-says-simon-coveney-1361572/?ref=sh

OlennasWimple · 21/06/2018 18:01

Hasenstein - that's shit, I'm sorry.

Are you making the application yourself or through a lawyer? It costs more and you shouldn't need to do it, but an ILPA affiliated immigration lawyer might be able to get things progressing.

You might also find it helpful to kick off the formal complaints procedure, as it has many layers and can take some time to exhaust. I'm sure you are doing this already, but it's worth being meticulous in your record keeping (including all correspondence) and setting out the full facts, including dates, in your letters

Copying any complaint letter you send to the Home OFfice to your MP might also help prompt them into action?

Cherrypi · 21/06/2018 18:09

That bit in the Ireland article about the EU benefitting small countries made me think maybe Northern Ireland might go independent after brexit.

frankiestein401 · 21/06/2018 18:11

'classic mysogonistic trick' - petard hoisted :(

Icantreachthepretzels · 21/06/2018 18:34

what young people are saying:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-44561319

This is why Brexit is so fundamentally pointless... because young people don't want it, and it will be reversed... and probably after not very long at all.
It is the last hoorah of a dying world attempting to cling to life support. And the price of their folly will be Britain accepting the Euro and schengen.
Bring it on, I say...

54321go · 21/06/2018 18:36

@Cherrypi
Unification of Ireland would make a lot of physical sense too but there are of course a lot of tricky 'definitions' but as you say as a small country separated from the (almost) United Kingdom could be a solution.
Wales and Scotland also wanted to remain but both obviously have a land border with England.

PolkaDotHats · 21/06/2018 18:40

I may have missed it, but what about Gibraltar?

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