Westminstenders: Don't Panic!

[RedToothBrush]

It's official

Brexit is like an episode of Dads Army with the government, being Captain Mainwaring's trusty band of elite forces doing battle against the evil Mr Barnier.

Yesterday Parliament gave back control to the executive as it surrendered parliamentary sovereignty to Janus faced May. Grieve, it has to be said, truly did look like a broken man as he gave his speech in the commons. Not that we should have too much sympathy. After all he did just put party before country.

So where are we now? The ERG are happy. They have successfully bullied enough until everyone else gave up and folded. They now have no incentive to compromise, as they know that no one can stand up to them. They want no deal, and it's no deal they will force.

The EU are thoroughly fed up and it's difficult to see them do anything but cut us loose saying Brexit means Brexit, this is what you wanted. They have stepped up planning for no deal and their plans were already much more advanced than ours.

We go into the next round of talks with a solution to the Irish Border looking further away than ever. Not helped by the fact that brexit nationalism is restricted to England alone, with many being happy to let NI be sunk into the Irish sea and the favour the rebuilding of Hadrian's wall in order to keep out the foreigners.

It's hard to resist simply sitting down wailing "we doomed". But try to resist and keep saying, you are against this crap. If only so history books don't just say we all agreed to this clusterfuck.

Here have a fluffy bunny to help comfort you.

I think to be fair on the SNP - they are now justifiably suspicious of the Government assurances that the Heathrow expansion would benefit Scotland, with the promise of extra slots for flights to Scottish airports Especially when Scotland would be required to pay towards it (just like we paid towards the Eurotunnel on the promise of direct links to Scotland that never happened ) as it would count as "National Infrastructure"

We all know how reliable promises from May's Government are

BigChocFrenzy Sun 24-Jun-18 15:47:20
NI polls suggest that the Brexit conundrum has caused some "soft" Unionists to now support a United Ireland, if this is the only way to avoid a hard border.

www.rte.ie/news/2018/0624/972833-northern-ireland-politics/
Looks as if the DUP may be starting to hedge their bets.
Attendance at the Ulster Gaelic football final between Donegal and Fermanagh, held in Clones, Co. Monaghan, Ireland, would have been completely unthinkable a few years ago. It is pretty earth-shattering.

On the heels of the election of a Unionist Remainer to Seanad Eireann, I wonder...

I suspect that if the DUP were to throw their weight behind a reunited Ireland, they would attract plenty of votes from more conservative blocs all over the island. The axis of Irish politics would undergo a shift if 'the national question' were settled.

Does anyone else think that Arlene Foster is a far more intelligent politician than Theresa May?

20nil
...it will take a lot for unionists to shift and any who’ve changed their minds already must have been very, very soft unionists.

The referendum result in NI was 56%-44%. This means some Unionists voted to Remain, despite the DUP campaign in favour of Leave.

Clearly, you can't fool all of the people all of the time.

you'd have to assume your workers' rights would kick in.

What workers rights if your immigration status is 'child of an EU citizen'?

You have to have the finances and/or union membership to invoke your workers rights too.

Plus we are leaving the ECJ.

You are taking your rights for granted, that you will continue to have them and you will have the ability to enforce them on the state. Brexit throws all that into question.

You are still in the mindset that everything will be ok and liberal democracy will protect us. The very point is that the protections we get from liberal democracy are under threat and might well go up the swanny.

This isn't Project Fear. The actions of the current government in not committing themselves to the Charter of Fundamental Rights and the protection of EU citizens unilaterally, are what you should pay attention to, not what they say about rights and how EU citizens will be just fine. This government is yet to demonstrate its commitment to rights.

Everything suggests the opposite direction of travel.

Does anyone else think that Arlene Foster is a far more intelligent politician than Theresa May?

You are trying to judge Arlene against a pretty low bar there.

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/06/24/exclusive-brexit-trade-deal-us-risk-britain-keeps-eu-protections/?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1529872960
US trade deal at risk if UK keeps EU food and drink protections post-Brexit, Paul Ryan warns

We've lost the manufacturing sector. Let just fuck over the agricultural and food sector too.

Sounds like a perfect plan.

Expect the ERG to be the first to sign up to it!

mother You need to look at the whole employment world, not just a protected middle class professional's subset.
Also look at all career stages, what they pay, how long someone would have to work to escape a situation they hated.

There is great potential for a ruthless employer to financially or otherwise abuse an employee, because such situations could swing the balance of power too far in favour of the employer.

The greatest protection any employee has, is to be able to quit their job.
Placing a deliberate penalty on exercising that right has to be carefully controlled, not just left to the good will of the employer

At lower levels in some firms, the training is entirely to suit them to that firm, no other
Employees should not have to repay training that only benefits the employer.

Also, even when transferable training is provided, an employer could ramp up the costs claimed.
There has to be a specified cost range throughout a profession, agreed by the professional body, then specified in a contract, in advance of the training or job offer.

My well-paid acquaintance found 3 years loyalty for a 100k specialised Master's was fair and it followed those suggested rules, because Germany is very strict to try to prevent abuse of this practice

An indentured servant would NOT be allowed in Germany.

Note: the number of indentured workers rocketed after the abolition of slavery.
It was the next best thing.
e.g. Indian indentured labourers sent to plantation colonies after 1834, for crops like sugar.

A major part of the Britannia Unchained plans that Priti Patel et al were trumpeting for Brexit was a
"bonfire of red tape"

Much of that red tape was workers' rights

US trade deal at risk if UK keeps EU food and drink protections post-Brexit, Paul Ryan warns

Knock me down with a feather, we didn't see that one coming

Don't forget those post brexit Henry VIII powers in which removal of rights necessary for Brexit can just be done by a minister without Parliamentary scrutiny.

math I'm surprised and pleased:
Attending the GAA final is very significant, as it was entirely optional
and also required standing for the RoI national anthem.

She also attended the funeral of Martin McGuinness
Definitely reaches out sometimes

She was applauded by those attending both events, even the funeral
So it is noticed.

I'm not sure if she is cleverer than May in the sense of knowing more facts or having a higher IQ
She seems a more capable politician - again a really low barrier - not robotic at all and has had much success in getting what she wants
I suspect she is more flexible and definitely seems to have more courage to go outside her political comfort zone.

BUT
She might just be reaching out only to make Republicans & Nationalists feel more at home within NI,
i.e. trying to delay, rather than helping smooth the way to the inevitable United Ireland some day:

She has said she would leave if Ireland were to be (re-)united

....and for devolved areas, without the consent of the Scottish Parliament

....Yes means yes fair enough but No also means Yes and silence means Yes - for the next seven years . And this includes the classified trade negotiations with the USA

pretty Are you grinding your teeth or enjoying the sheer hypocrisy, when Uk ministers attack Airbus for making public its concerns ?

I'm thinking back to the Indy Ref campaign, when the UK govts heavily pressured many leading businesses to say they might have to pull out or cut back, if Scotland voted Indy

The US has always made it clear, that any trade deal must allow the huge US agribusiness sector to export to the UK.
The agribusiness lobby - under all presidents - has great power over much of Congress, because they buy that influence

The find idea many Leavers have that Trump would give a special trade deal because of Brexit is laughable

The only "special" aspect is that Brexit has put the UK in a very weak position
so Trump will want to take "special" advantage and grab the UK by its pussy

I don't think Republicans or nationalists in NI would fall for BS, BigChoc. They have had many decades (a few hundred years actually) to get to know what they are dealing with.

I know she said she would leave, etc., but at the back of her mind there must be the memory that 71% of NI voters who voted in the GFA referendum voted in favour. That means that plenty of Unionists of all stripes decided to give something new a try.

I suspect if the Reverend Ian Paisley could change his mind, Arlene Foster could too.

Besides, where would she go? Britain might or might not be a very nice place in a few years. And who would she be, elsewhere? I can't see her swapping leadership of a party that is important on one particular island for a 3-bedroom detached house and a job in a small university lecturing on 'identity politics'.

I suspect she might like to see a DUP candidate elected to Dail Eireann from Donegal, the only Irish county to vote No in the recent Irish referendum to repeal the Eighth Amendment. There is more to Unionism than the question of the Union. There is a strong element of evangelical social conservatism too.

Paul Ryan applying the screws. The choice is stark.

Math, I meant it would take a lot for unionists to effectively become nationalists. There may be some around the soft edges of unionism who either don’t care or could be persuaded, but if the DUP threw its weight behind a United Ireland it would cease to be the DUP. Not going to happen.

www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/end-torbay-council-know-mayor-1707225.amp?__twitter_impression=true
The end of unitary Torbay Council as Mayor says 'There is no money'
"There is no money. I am not crying

It's dissolving itself and merging into Devon Council apparently

I think if enough people are hurt by Brexit, the DUP may have no choice but to provide some sort of practical leadership - the alternative being leadership by some other party. The DUP weren't always top dog in the Unionist camp and the tide could turn again.

The Unionists wouldn't have to become nationalists of any stripe, just a group motivated by self interest proceeding in an obvious direction.

e.g. if you don't have a valid driving licence, no amount of money you carry can make you legally allowed to drive.

Or you take your chance driving and hope that you don't get caught. If there are enough like you then you will probably get away with it, because there are unlikely to be sufficient law enforcement officers.

The greatest protection any employee has, is to be able to quit their job. Placing a deliberate penalty on exercising that right has to be carefully controlled, not just left to the good will of the employer

But, there have to be sufficient workers available to do the job. Think of Europe after the Black Death, which killed off feudalism, because there were so few survivors that those who were still capable to tell their old masters to get lost and take their labour elsewhere. So with EU citizens not being made welcome, and Caribbean, African and Indian sub-continent citizens seeing how the Windrush generation were treated, all these might decide that they don't want to come here, and then, with a declining birth rate, what do we do? Automate, yes, but this costs money.

Just catching up from the weekend, I have just read the article a page or two back about how the SNP could thwart things at Westminster. Bring it on, I say. They owe their loyalty to the people of Scotland, not bailing out Theresa May. She has made it clear what she thinks of devolution, so I would think they are entitled to take what action is necessary. I would be furious if I were a Scot or living there to hear the constant 'will of the people' stuff when I knew that it wasn't the will of my own nation, but I had been told 'tough'. (Although we haven't heard quite so much about the will of the people lately.)

I agree Peregrina.
And if we stop hearing 'will of the people' being parroted as an argument for Brexit, well... that was their last argument, wasn't it? I've repeatedly asked my MP what the tangible benefits of Brexit are. I no longer receive any attempts to answer that.
We've asked posters on here the same question, and had no reply.

For how long does a 'democratic decision' carry its mandate? Until information is revealed which suggests a different decision/course of action?

I just want to leave :(

Go on then MrsRRR. Try your luck in Trump's America.