Westminstenders: Rebel or Reveal

[RedToothBrush]

The EU Withdrawal Bill made it through the Commons. Though May did not manage it unscathed.

In an attempt to divide and conquer the Rebels, May might have damaged trust. We shall find out. The Grieve Amendment faces the Lords. We also will see if the Lords will back down on their amendments or apply some new ones for the Commons to deal with in Parliamentary Ping Pong.

Aaron Banks has been exposed as being pally with the Russian Embassy in a plot twist that absolutely everyone saw coming.

Meanwhile the EU thinks we have already run out of time and is preparing options to extend talks beyond the a50 deadline. These include having MEPs for the 2019 - 2024 session.

There is also growing talk around Europe that freedom of movement in its current form is unsustainable. Ironically we might see the EU adopt something akin to Cameron's pre-referendum proposals as the EU reforms.

Theresa May has also announced - at a moment when she is looking particularly weak - a new tax for the NHS, cunningly disguised in spin as 'the Brexit dividend'. Of course shareholders don't always get dividends and at times of poor economic performance instead might be asked to stump up extra capital...Expect to see buses with £350 million of the side just in time for the next general election cycle.

And so the Zombie PM limbers on towards the end of the summer session and the relative safety of the summer holidays. More drama, cringing and disbelief guaranteed before we get there.

If that isn’t independent I don’t know what is
You can argue about the 'independent' bit but 'suicidal' is a more accurate term.

54321

Tell you what. Have every nuclear nation on earth get rid of their nuclear weapons but leave the Russians some. Or Iran. Or North Korea.

Then come back to me and talk about suicide

Duggee afaik, the French Force de Frappe is genuinely independent, as they have not outsourced anything important

The Trident warhead housings are made in the US and the missiles are part of a shared pool of missiles in the US.
It is the US which supports and maintains them
What I don't know is how often this has to be done and how long would be safe without this service

It needn't even be a falling out with the US over other issues:
the US has several times expressed frustration that the UK invests so much of its limited resources in nukes, instead of in the conventional military.
The US might refuse to continue supporting something they think actually lowers overall useful Western defence capacity

That's a lot more than a mere supply chain problem; that would be refusal to supply
It is also certainly a pressure point that the US can apply whenever it wishes

Heydug
You seem incapable of understanding. If Britain fires a nuclear warhead at any other Nuclear country the UK is gone, full stop.
While it has a value as a deterrent it is not a practical device.
We manage to fire one or two (to make sure the 'other side' knows we are really serious and it wasn't an accident) the first couple of incoming wipe out the UK.

Unlike some, I don't have a problem in principal with a nuclear deterrent
Merely whether the UK defence budget can afford it

"All fur coat and no knickers" springs to mind

I'd expect that a referendum on whether to abolish Trident, or to either raise taxes or cut services to fund it,
would result in the fur coat being junked for some new knickers.

Gosh, BigChoc, you might almost be tempted to suggest that the UK will never enjoy sovereignty despite the imminent approach of Brexit. It's almost as if the UK is a vassal state of the US.

Meanwhile, back on board Enterprise, Captain Kink... (@DGR?)
I don't think 'Our Theresa ' is planning WW3 this week, but just trying to find a way out of a mess of her party's making.
How long is it going to take the UK to realise how many unicorns there are around and how flighty they are?

woman That report from the US is horrific

I'd expect jail for any parent who treated small children like that
In the US the sentence would probably be umpteen years
But not when it's the state committing the abuse

Sovereignty is as much ours now as it ever was, and if it isn't, it certainly is not in Brussels.

54321

It is you who do not understand

The uk has a no first use policy. It exists to deter the first use by others

Again - read up on deterrence theory before you comment on issues you do not understand

Since anyone firing a nuclear missile has a matter of minutes before retaliation and probable destruction the whole question is rather pointless.
Have you managed to read up on how expensive most things are about to become in the UK? This is an issue happening NOW and will continue for at least a few years, perhaps a bit more relevant than arguing the toss about 'nukes' where if any get used it is 'game over'.

I don't need to understand deterrence theory. I know nukes exist. I also know that things will go horribly wrong if any get fired. I also know that I have absolutely no say whether any get fired or not. I am happy to move on to things that WILL happen.

heyduggie you really are dissembling

1. can we construct a viable trident warhead without american support
2. can we build a viable missile
3. can we test fire trident missiles without american support
4. is there any scenario where we could launch an armed trident missile on a target independently of the US
5. can we maintain the weapon system without american support
6. if we stop paying the americans at what point do we lose system capability

even if the launch protocols did exclude american keys the ability to launch doesnt make it independent.

if we were attacked by a friend of the US and the US did not want us to retaliate - would we?

Tell you what. Have every nuclear nation on earth get rid of their nuclear weapons but leave the Russians some. Or Iran. Or North Korea.

Then come back to me and talk about suicide

Making a heckuva lot of sense there HeyDugg.
Everyone knows how dangerous children are.
And Mexico and Central America...

Allie Hodgkin-Brown @ alliehbnews
After 25 years, David Dimbleby is to leave the BBC’s Question Time at the end of the year. He’s the programme’s longest-serving presenter.

Just axe the entire show.

And bring back this one. We need a cunning plan.

Just wondering what goes on in the mind of someone so intensely focused on nuclear weapons that details of nuclear capability and the prospect of nuclear war are more of a concern for them than the fact that babies and little children are being kept in cages in Texas with thermal foil for blankets on a floor.

Anna Soubry has posted this on Twitter, from the Times about the NHS 'dividend'. Even Tory MPs are being bluntly open about how deliberately misleading it is. When will they finally get fed up with being in this party?

It is also emphatically not a Brexit dividend. The prime minister’s attempt to clothe the announcement in the language of the Brexit campaigners to suggest that the money will come from the sums that will no longer be sent to Brussels may be a canny way of appeasing the Brexiteers, already smarting from what they see as too many compromises in the negotiations. But it is as mendacious as the lie on the big red bus: there was never going to be a weekly payback of £350 million. In any case Britain is still committed to annual payments to the EU to cover its obligations for years to come

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cash-infusion-dw2f78kcl?shareToken=12d911be7a97cfffd7fd44696289cc34

And retweeted Dr Sarah Wollaston saying this:
The Brexit dividend tosh was expected but treats the public as fools. Sad to see Govt slide to populist arguments rather than evidence on such an important issue. This will make it harder to have a rational debate about the ‘who & how’ of funding & sharing this fairly.

And retweeting Dr Phillip Lee tweeting this:
As a GP, I‘m happy to see more money for our health & social care. We need to spend more as our population ages. But we must be honest about how we are going to pay. There is no evidence yet that there will be a “Brexit dividend” - so it’s tax rises, more borrowing or both

Fibbing about the NHS is not a very good look, and even tories know it..... Warming up round Leave/Russia too, I notice. Must be why they've got all hot and bothered about Grieve pointing out a constitutional fact.

Even Tory MPs are being bluntly open about how deliberately misleading it is.

So now more of them need to rebel.

Which adviser actually orchestrated the 'dividend' TV speech and rather crude instantaneous reinforcing publicity campaign anyway?

What's the advisory role of Shanker Singham since his unit joined the IEA from Legatum. Is that the sort of advice they give? Some one orchestrated it.

Oh dear, it appears Mark Carney has been reading some of our posts on MN and has decided that Britain is already worse off, and bearing in mind Brexit hasn't happened yet it can't be good.
Figures 'published' suggest around 3 percent loss so far but the report was from before some of the larger companies revealed they will probably leave. Job losses will rapidly kill off the government's 'anticipated' rise in tax take later in the year.
I don't see the supermarkets wanting to take their profits possibly halving for long.

Maybe they could save a few quid, get rid of the 'advisors and just do 'scissors, paper, stone instead when making decisions?

Just wondering what goes on in the mind of someone so intensely focused on nuclear weapons that details of nuclear capability and the prospect of nuclear war are more of a concern for them than the fact that babies and little children are being kept in cages in Texas with thermal foil for blankets on a floor.

You are wondering?

I mean, virtue signalling food banks.

Lets me explain. Some humans aren't humans. They are just rats.

People finally waking up and reacting to the fact there is no Brexit dividend to fund the NHS!
Except it still hasnt made the headlines so people still won’t know.

Re nukes.
I actually think it’s even more complicated than that with the US. The US have always had an issue with other countries having nuclear power too. That was especially true for France but also for the U.K. (esp if the U.K. doesn’t do as it is told). There is some power in having nuclear power. And that was one of the things the EU will miss when the U.K. is out of the equation.
I’m still very confused as to why the U.K. has decided to lean towards the US for build the Trident or for any sort of weapons when the EU is so close (geographically) and was a strong partner (before Brexit). I dint understand what was the point of doing that on a political pov.

People finally waking up and reacting to the fact there is no Brexit dividend to fund the NHS!
Except it still hasnt made the headlines so people still won’t know.

Well, at least Hunt was just headlining the BBCR4 news saying that Brexit wasn’t going to fund the NHS.