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Brexit

Westministenders: Stalling for Time

963 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/05/2018 14:32

After 14 defeats, the Withdrawal Bill exited the Lords. In much worse condition than anyone dared to predicted.

Now we have those who were viciously against Lords reform, all of a sudden shouting about how much we desperately need it. Well fancy that. Tradition isn't so attractive if you aren't getting your own way.

Daniel Hannan has suddenly admitted that Brexit is not 'going to plan' (there was one?) and Johnson is still his weekly resignation threat.

It now throws things back into Corbyn's court. The Tory Rebel Forces think that they have the numbers to stay in the Single Market, but are blocked by Corbyn's opposition to it.

The decision on the customs union has effectively been pushed back to the Autumn by May, but we have to make a decision about the Irish border by June or trade talks won't go ahead as planned.

The trouble is that the Cabinet can not decide on which option they want to take, but neither is particularly viable anyway. Max Fac means a border in the Irish Sea which the DUP won't like and the Customs Partnership isn't acceptable to the Empire Tories. In any case it seems unlikely that either option could get through the Commons in their current form due to the growing number of Tory Rebel Forces.

May also has a problem with the grass roots. It is more or less impossible for her to deliver the Brexit they desire whatever she tries.

The growing backlash about the hostile environment also undermines the point of Brexit in reducing immigration. Its is growing apparent, WHY we need immigration and that the people who are being targeted for deportation are simply the easiest to pick off and not the ones that people see as 'a problem'. Indeed you have to wonder about how many immigrants ARE a problem. The idea to control immigration after Brexit was not through the border but through the hostile environment, yet this seems now to be something that will be impossible to continue with politically.

Leave.EU have now been referred to the police for breaking Electoral Law. It also turns out that they found numerous ways to beat the spending limit legally. The female data controller has also been found to have data protection law. Meanwhile Banks and Wigmore as well as Nix (CA and SCL), Cummings (Vote Leave) and Silvester (AIQ) have all been summoned to appear because the Culture, Media and Sport Select Committee. Zuckerberg also does not appear to have completed his answers to the committee as Facebook have had their homework deadline extended to Monday (and has been asked to appear by the 24th May whilst he is in Europe).

Culture, Media and Sport Select Committee Dates
Electoral Commission - Tuesday 15th May
Silvester - Wednesday 16th May
Cummings / Nix - Summoned to appear Tuesday 22nd May
Banks / Wigmore - Tuesday 16th June

Also in parliament in next weeks is and interesting looking ten minute rule bill named 'Representation of the People (Gibraltar)' - Tuesday 15th May

Anyway, we are all set for the predictable 'who blinks first' brinkmanship with the UK aware that if the EU don't blink we go over the cliff and parliament aware that if May delays long enough she bypasses parliamentary democracy or put it in a position with a gun to its head.

Who is looking forward to this year's 'row of the summer'?
It could be a long, hot summer.

Anyway, I want France to win Eurovision and the UK to get some points and not come last. Its not going to happen is it?

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BigChocFrenzy · 17/05/2018 12:00

"Small delay" - 2023 at least ! Grin

RedToothBrush · 17/05/2018 12:11

2023 is regarded as optimisatic.

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mrsreynolds · 17/05/2018 12:11

How DARE the brexiters quote st Don of Henley!!!
😮😡🤣

Cailleach1 · 17/05/2018 12:15

Red, tempting as it is on many levels, sheer incompetency is also in the mix of the current gov't. And so many members of the 'movers and shakers' in the UK at the moment.

Hanlon's Razor comes to mind. Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. In this instance the fact there was no plan or thought out path is stupidity enough, I suppose.

I was thinking about the British makers and leaving the EU. At the moment the EU won't allow the sale of the the sedative sodium thiopental to the US if it is going to be used in executions. I suppose if the CU and SM is the backstop, this will still stand.

The ban was brought in in 2012.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16281016

BlueEyeshadow · 17/05/2018 14:22

One O'Clock News was reporting that Treesa has absolutely denied plans to stay in the CU after Brexit. So does that mean that it is happening?

Buteo · 17/05/2018 14:26

If she said “let me be clear, we are leaving the CU” then a U turn is on the cards.

🤞

Motheroffourdragons · 17/05/2018 15:14

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Dobby1sAFreeElf · 17/05/2018 15:31

Tm is most definitely the football manager of prime ministers 😂

prettybird · 17/05/2018 16:08

" But nothing has changed. Nothing. Has. Changed!!!! "

when we all know the opposite

GrinHmmWinkGrinWinkConfusedSmile

BigChocFrenzy · 17/05/2018 16:35

It will be better to have a “crisis” in the Brexit talks next month rather than later this year, Tánaiste Simon Coveney has told a meeting of Fine Gael TDs & Senators

This fits reports that the RoI is pushing for a decision to stop trade talks, in the 28-29 June EU Council of Ministers meeting, unless Barnier reports the UK has shown significant progress.

Probably why the Cabinet has reportedly agreed to staying in the Customs Union forever until at least 2023
Will that be enough without agreeing to stay in the SM, at least as a backstop ?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/better-to-have-brexit-crisis-sooner-rather-than-later-says-coveney-1.3497938

The Minister for Foreign Affairs said it would be better to have any “crisis” in the coming weeks,
and leave time for any damage to be repaired, rather than in November or December.

The UK and EU are due to agree a Withdrawal Agreement – including the Irish “backstop” – by October.

DGRossetti · 17/05/2018 16:40

Where's all the Brexiteers gone ?

Motheroffourdragons · 17/05/2018 16:51

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DGRossetti · 17/05/2018 16:57

The UK and EU are due to agree a Withdrawal Agreement – including the Irish “backstop” – by October.

I'm not au fait with all the EU27s various constitutional arrangements, but what is the possibility that one of their governments has to deal with a supreme court-type challenge from one of their citizens or pressure groups over agreeing the withdrawal bill ?

Motheroffourdragons · 17/05/2018 17:03

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DGRossetti · 17/05/2018 17:06

Well, DG - speaking from Belgium and watching at close hand the kerfuffle that Wallonia caused with CETA I would imagine, fairly high. In Belgium all three federal states have to agree otherwise Belgium as a country cannot, it holds lots of stuff up here.

I bet they look enviously at the UK, and the way Westminster can just tell the Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish to get on the bus.

DGRossetti · 17/05/2018 17:09

www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-44155590

The UK is being taken to court by the European Commission over its long-standing failure to meet EU limits for nitrogen dioxide (NO₂).

Germany, France, Italy, Romania, and Hungary have also been referred to the court for breaching pollution levels.

The European Environment Commissioner, Karmenu Vella, said the EU "owed it to its citizens," to take legal action.

The UK has promised a comprehensive air pollution package shortly.

But Britain could face fines totalling millions of pounds, on-going until the problem is solved

The government has already lost a series of battles in the UK courts on air pollution.

Commissioner Vella said it was the Commission's responsibility to ensure people could breathe clean air.

He said the member states being taken to court had been repeatedly warned to clean up pollution as soon as possible.

"We can't possibly wait any longer. It's high time to intensify efforts and end exceedances (of pollution levels)."

Environmentalists say by taking the UK to the European Court of Justice, the EU has demonstrated what will be lost after Brexit.

The Environment Secretary, Michael Gove, previously promised that governance of the environment would not be diluted when the UK leaves the EU.

But he revealed last week that the UK environmental watchdog he proposes after Brexit would not have the automatic power to take the government to court.

(contd)

Motheroffourdragons · 17/05/2018 17:15

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Buteo · 17/05/2018 17:24

Tm is most definitely the football manager of prime ministers

I was just mentally likening her to Sam Allardyce when I saw that - he only managed one match as England manager and has just been sacked again Smile

woman11017 · 17/05/2018 17:49

Dunt podcast here in Italy and 5 Star
twitter.com/IanDunt/status/997138535248515072

RedToothBrush · 17/05/2018 18:03

Faisal Islam @ faisalislam
Dominic Cummings reported over refusing to appear at Fake News inquiry to Commons authorities by culture select Committee "a first step which could result in a decision that a contempt of Parliament has been committed, a v serious outcome" says Chair @DamianCollins

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SacrebleuLondres · 17/05/2018 18:29

What does a very serious outcome mean? Does anyone know?

RedToothBrush · 17/05/2018 18:33

[Parliament’s] power to punish non-members for contempt is untested in recent times. In theory, both houses can summon a person to the bar of the house to reprimand them or order a person’s imprisonment. In addition, the House of Lords is regarded as possessing the power to fine non-members. The House of Commons last used its power to fine in 1666 and this power may since have lapsed.

From this article on the subject of contempt of parliament from 3 years ago:

Contempt of parliament: bluster or real threat?

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DGRossetti · 17/05/2018 18:35

What does a very serious outcome mean? Does anyone know?^

At a guess, fuck all ? See also data protection breaches, and ministers acting illegally. A lot of hand wringing, but nothing of any substance.

Which brings us back to Brexit, funnily enough ....

RedToothBrush · 17/05/2018 18:38

Theoretically the House of Commons can imprison someone until the end of the parliamentary session, and the House of Lords can imprison someone indefinitely. The Lords can also fine someone an unlimited amount.

Practically it would be very politically charged to do anything other than fine someone.

But I guess we might be about to find out. I'll wager that Cummings is going to play chicken with the parliament. For the shits and giggles if nothing else.

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Cailleach1 · 17/05/2018 18:48

Dominic Cummings and contempt of Parliament. Oh, the irony. The facade worn thin.