Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: Throwing Boomerangs

960 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/04/2018 18:42

British politics and media in a nutshell.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boomerang_effect_(psychology)#Political_beliefs

No EU progress, no discussion. Just this. Keep everyone in line by bouncing boomerangs.

Disaster capitalism looms, they just have to get us to the edge of the cliff before the centre reforms. That's it.

If the legal roads to stop Brexit are closed as David Allen Green says, then how do you force the political flood gates to open, especially with both the far left and the far right using micro-aggression against the public to keep the centre ground weak?

Answers on a ballot paper on 3rd May.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
40
Hasenstein · 23/04/2018 11:46

And we have no-one like Hilary Clinton (for example)

Or an Elizabeth Warren. How the centre ground (in the absence of a sensibly-run Labour party) needs someone like her.

RedToothBrush · 23/04/2018 12:02

What on earth were they thinking?

That the world is all against them and owes them.

The trouble is that defensiveness combined with examples of institutionalised failings like Grenfell and outright corruption like the HMRC/Lycamobile issue (which in getting very little coverage outside buzzfeed adds to appearances) fuels this.

Owen Jones got castigated for his comments over the elitism of the media but he was right in many respects (its just a shame he is also an example of the same damn dynamic).

Its also ownership of the media and the way they make revenue by click thats the issue. The likes of the canary suffer the same flaws from this capitalism led media. They are not immune.

Facts are dull. No one wants to read facts.

OP posts:
VivaKondo · 23/04/2018 12:18

Following again

prettybird · 23/04/2018 12:25

It's a sad indictment that "facts are dull and no-one wants to read them".

I was talking to dh and my dad last night about Marshall Aid and who got the most (information I'd only learnt from BigChocFrenzy on these very threads and had gone away and researched for myself).

Dh refused to believe that the proportions were 26% to the UK and only 11% to Germany and asked me what my source was. I said I'd read around the subject but that one of the best and most accessible had been a 7 year old history article on the BBC website. It says something about how far the BBC has fallen that he derided that as a reliable source - despite the fact the the figures involved are a matter of public record.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/modern/marshall_01.shtml

RedToothBrush · 23/04/2018 12:45

BBC archived pages are brilliant.

They really suffered from budget cuts and being told to limit their remit on online content.

I love facts. I would rather watch a documentary than a film (though I loved BB and the likes of Hollyoaks too). I'd rather read a factual book than a fiction book.

But then I'm dull. Unashamedly.

OP posts:
mrsreynolds · 23/04/2018 12:52

I shall join you in the boring corner red

Hasenstein · 23/04/2018 13:07

I'd rather read a factual book than a fiction book.

I find it depends which bit of my brain needs feeding at any one time. I sometimes go through weeks of factual stuff, then find myself craving a bit of human ingenuity and imagination. Then I eventually read a rubbish novel and scuttle back to my factual playground.

HesterThrale · 23/04/2018 13:17

Don't worry Sarahmill, it's not surprising there was more than just me being cross about that R4 interview.
In fact I think it's the clearest example I've heard yet of Humphry's Brexit bias. I'm going to complain.

It's worth a listen. Ken Clarke was very good.
The clip is from 2.14 to 2.22:

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09zt3bm

Hasenstein · 23/04/2018 13:57

Hester

You're spot on about Humphry's bias. His blustering interruptions whenever Ken Clarke tried to develop a point were infuriating. Par for the course with him, though, I'm afraid.

(Goes back to James O'Brien)

DGRossetti · 23/04/2018 14:07

In fact I think it's the clearest example I've heard yet of Humphry's Brexit bias.

It would have to be spectacular to top the grilling he gave Tony Blair earlier this year (I posted about it on here) over the hint of a whisper of a inking of a dream of an idea of a second referendum.

Personally I think we're entering the phase of events where dim people who rushed to suck up to the winners are now starting to see the flaws and cracks. Which makes them more entrenched.

Totally OT Hmm but is anyone watching the SOE training documentary on the BBC ????

The chap they had to remove from the training because of his attitude was almost a poster boy for Brexiteer think. Even as he was being told why they felt he wasn't the type of person they were looking for, he (not so) subtly suggested that it was their fault for not seeing is full potential (ironically thus proving their point).

It's a fun programme - I'd recommend it anyway. Most fascinating that a lot of outstanding SOE agents were women - Odette being the most famous.

Peregrina · 23/04/2018 14:53

The SOE programme is extremely good. We weren't going to watch it but found ourselves doing so. There is a good balance of the current recruits and the stories of the real SOE people. I liked the way that one person felt that the chap who was removed last week said that she would leave him behind because he would draw attention to them. She was the only one!

prettybird · 23/04/2018 14:55

Given the discussion we were having earlier in the thread about ID cards, I came across this article about the risks of an all-encompassing biometric ID card

Viewpoint: The pitfalls of India's biometric ID scheme
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-43619944

I was also thinking about the issues faced by the Windrush generation (actually, we need to keep pointing out that it is broader than just Windrush/the Caribbean: it is all Commonwealth citizens who arrived here - and were welcomed - in the 50s, 60s and very early 70s)....

As a country (and I say that deliberately rather than "we" because it is not being done in my name Angry) the UK is perilously close to going back to the old "suss" laws, where the police were able to stop usually black people for no reason other than they thought they might have committed an offence. It destroyed communities trust in the police. Only this is worse, because the government has "outsourced" it to landlords, banks, the DWP, the NHS Angry

And as my dad was pointing out last night, apart from the fact that we're white , if it weren't for the fact that we wanted passports to travel and didn't want to retain our South African ones (not that I ever had one) for political reasons, so that my parents had sorted out naturalisation as soon as they could, we could have ended up in the same situation. Sad

DGRossetti · 23/04/2018 15:14

the stories of the real SOE people.

I have nothing but admiration and awe for them - knowing they were probably looking at a very sticky end if caught (suicide pills were issued).

It's also good to hear of the bravery of the Polish in the war fighting for Britain.

RedToothBrush · 23/04/2018 15:16

www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/jeremy-corbyn/news/94622/labour-activist-who-questioned-jo
Labour activist who questioned Jo Cox's killing set to be dumped as parliamentary candidate

But party sources have said that she failed to fill in the section of her candidate application form which asked whether there is anything in her background which could "embarrass either themselves or the party ... or bring the party into disrepute". She also failed to mention anything of that nature during her interview by the local party in Worcester.

Under Labour rules, candidates selected at hustings must also be endorsed by the party's ruling national executive committee, and it is thought unlikely that they will do so in this case.

OP posts:
DGRossetti · 23/04/2018 15:46

Seen elsewhere ...

Westminstenders: Throwing Boomerangs
DGRossetti · 23/04/2018 16:29

File under: "Well, who'd have thunk it ?"

www.theregister.co.uk/2018/04/23/uk_lords_tell_uk_gov_brexit_is_bad_for_space/

A letter to science minister Sam Gyimah MP has outlined the impact of Brexit on the UK space sector, and it doesn't make for happy reading

(contd)

prettybird · 23/04/2018 18:04

Who would've anticipated all these unexpected consequences? Hmm It's not as if those pesky experts warned us..... Confused

Here's another expert in the musical industry describing the negative consequences on his industry (and also commenting on consequences for publishing and the theatre sector amongst others)

http://www.howardgoodall.co.uk/articles-press-etc/brexit-and-music-theme-and-variations

RedToothBrush · 23/04/2018 18:16

Esther Webber @ estwebber
Peers now voting on Lord Pannick amendment designed to ensure that the majority of the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights is carried over to form part of domestic law - result in 15

Govt defeat: Peers vote 316 to 245 for amendment designed to ensure that the majority of the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights is carried over in domestic law

V v good news.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 23/04/2018 18:19

m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/may-suffers-fresh-brexit-defeat-as-lords-vote-to-keep-eu-human-rights-in-british-law-charter-of-fundamental-rights-lord-pannick_uk_5ade0402e4b0b2e8113204c3/?3b9=&__twitter_impression=true
May Suffers Fresh Brexit Defeat As Lords Vote To Keep EU Charter Of Fundamental Rights In British Law
Cross-party alliance gives PM another Brexit bloody nose

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 23/04/2018 19:01

Andrew Gilligan @ mragilligan
Mandy not pulling back from any of her claims about MI5/ MI6/ Thames Water etc
t.co/OHwmEaveBS

Worcester PPC Controversy

In response to articles and comments posted over the weekend I would like to initially state that if being a victim of domestic harassment and standing up for my rights makes me a fantasist then shame on those levelling such taunts, as it is clear they would rather have women and black people suffer in silence than seek advocacy and resolution.

By way of clarification of the matters raised, between 2015 - 2017 there were a number of unexplained incidents in and around my home including home invasion, theft, a car break-in, computer hacking, bike tampering, mail tampering, a fridge fire and electrical surges rendering my computers and mobile phones unusable. This all coincided with a series of serious unexplained health conditions.

For over 18 months I liaised individually and separately with each of the agencies that were ultimately named in the court proceedings of March 2017, following up on repeated requests for assistance and investigation and following all their protocols in place for dealing with claims and complaints. Through this protracted process I was having to endure life threatening levels of loss of blood, unexplained levels of heavy metals in my system and incidents within my home including environmental pollutants, that could potentially have caused loss of life.

I impressed upon each of the agencies successively the urgent need for support to investigate the causes of the issues complained of. Having exhausted internal complaints processes and following liaison with Ombudsmen support and assistance was still not forthcoming, with each agency in turn suggesting they were not obliged to assist or intervene. As the situation grew more harmful I was left with no alternative but to seek legal action to prompt the agencies into fulfilling their duty of care to me as a customer and private citizen.

I pursued my own investigation privately as a litigant in person. Given that there was no way of knowing if I had in fact been subject to malicious harassment I had to explore every potential avenue of possibility. Having been active in journalism, politics and trade unionism one of the lines of inquiry led me to approach the Investigatory Powers Tribunal (IPT) and Undercover Police Inquiry (UCPI) to see if I had been targeted in the same way as Diane Abbott and Ken Livingstone, whom I had worked with closely and both of whom had been confirmed as Core Participants in the UCPI. Both agencies would neither confirm nor deny that there had been any targeting of me as an activist. This then led onto direct enquiries made to MI5 & MI6 with the same outcome. They would neither confirm nor deny, but stated that if any surveillance activity had taken place it would have been proportionate and within the realms of the law.

Unsatisfied with this response and with no funds to secure formal representation I set about bringing my case. As a litigant in person procedural errors in my initial applications led to my claim having to be resubmitted. There were not multiple cases brought, merely one case with revised pleas. The court also advised that where there were separate defendants in the case, that where appropriate, all matters could be dealt with simultaneously rather than separately. Being of limited means I chose that option and submitted an initial sample file of evidence for the preliminary hearing.

Without formal legal representation, I stood little chance of a favourable outcome against a raft of corporate lawyers, however the need to defend my right to safety and protection and to address key human rights infringements was paramount.

I followed through the litigation process and acted according to the Court’s office guidance & support on the rights of access any citizen would be afforded under the circumstances. Whilst most of the claims were set aside, the claim brought against Whittington Hospital has been allowed to proceed to trial and is currently on-going. Extended Civil restraint Orders (ECROs) were issued against me in this same case, with multiple respondents, solely to deter me from amending claims further and resubmitting them independently as had happened once already. With ECROs in place any claimant must first liaise with the Judge prior to submitting a claim. It does not bar me or anyone from seeking further legal action. I have no regrets in taking the course of action I did where all other avenues of recourse had been exhausted.

In the Election petition case I raised in June 2016 the circumstances of this are well documented. Having identified statistical discrepancies in the Greater London Assembly vote count for West Central I triggered a procedural investigation. Election petitions are not uncommon and can be raised by anyone who has evidence that the election has not been properly conducted. In the preliminary hearings held in the High Court it was deemed that there was a case to answer. The trial that ensued did indeed highlight significant discrepancies in final vote count figures and errors made in election process security, but did not find that the respondents were directly responsible. However, I did feel vindicated by the evidence uncovered and by the Judge’s recommendations that the processes in question should be reviewed given that they could well have been open to abuse.

As both of the above cases named ‘Progress’, a campaign group associated with the Labour Party, and Hackney Council as respondents, I discussed the matters at length with executive officers from the Party prior to the Worcester selection process commencing. Documents related to both cases have also been in the public domain for some time. I apologise to Labour Party members for any consternation or upset the articles published this weekend may have caused, but I can assure you categorically the cases brought were all above board.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 23/04/2018 19:02

This is one of the replies to that fb post by Mandy Richards:

I'm a card carrying member living in Worcester and I won't vote for you. You are doing our party damage in the local elections and you will never win this marginal barometer. Do the right thing and go.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 23/04/2018 19:07

Not a good night in the lords for the government. Three defeats. One mentioned above plus these two:

Esther Webber @ estwebber
Govt defeat: Peers vote 285 to 235 for an amendment which would remove ministers' ability to specify in regulations when individuals may bring challenges against the validity of retained EU law

Govt defeat: Peers vote 280 to 223 for an amendment designed to retain the right of action in domestic law if there is a failure to comply with the general principles of EU law

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 23/04/2018 21:00

JRM dropping the veneer of charm - and looks very ugly

Bullying the RoI, just like the old days … the MP for the 18th century
Unfortunately, too many other Brexiters think this is the best way to force a unicorn cake deal

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/949510/brexit-news-eu-northern-ireland-border-jacob-rees-mogg

“If UK trades on WTO terms, we could slap tariffs of up to 70 per cent on Irish beef.
That could bankrupt Ireland who export £800million of beef to us every year.

prettybird · 23/04/2018 21:10

Ponders to self why ROI (with the help of EU grants) now has a humongous RORO ferry that bypasses the UK and goes direct to continental Europe ..... Wink

BigChocFrenzy · 23/04/2018 21:14

They still have to find additional customers there for their beef, to replace lost UK ones
So it is a worrying threat for the RoI if Brexiters ever get control of negotiations

Swipe left for the next trending thread