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Brexit

Westminstenders: From Russia with Love

996 replies

RedToothBrush · 13/03/2018 21:11

Things just got scary.

The colony of US puppet state or a vassel state of the EU?

Why not just let market forces take their course and let Russia buy the UK?

How did we get to stories of spies and mafia who buy politicians?

Just who are our enemies and allies?

Won't someone think of the effect on house prices in Salisbury?

Try not to don your foil hat, brace yourself and resist shouting 'money laundering too loud'.

More turbulence ahead.

Brexit still seems like such a cracking idea doesn't it?

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frumpety · 15/03/2018 20:31

No more garbled or incoherent than my post Pain , I am no Putin fangirl its more of a case that this type of activity has been happening for years.

woman11017 · 15/03/2018 20:39

whistleblowers who have all been threatened and sometimes murdered are a product of this corruption
Chapman?
.
Bill Browder on James O Brien.
www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/bill-browder-wants-to-kill-more-than-skripal/

Why are the big players so terrified to speak up about the idiocy of brexit?

And why is Corbyn behaving so undemocratically?

"Putin is a thug. He has found weakness in the UK so far."

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 15/03/2018 20:39

If we were under-reacting before, which I think we were (but again, I don't mean I think we should be bombing them!), it doesn't mean we have to carry on not responding appropriately.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 15/03/2018 20:41

And it's not just this week that has made me think we under-reacted before; I've thought this for awhile.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 15/03/2018 20:43

And forgive me if I'm wrong, but just to be clear, you don't think that strength = war, woman do you?

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 15/03/2018 20:44

I'm turning into TM, with all the "just to be clear" ing I'm doing Blush

thecatfromjapan · 15/03/2018 20:49

I'm pretty worked up. The polonium was bad enough - a radioactive substance trekked across London. And now 38 known civilians affected.

Not to mention political hits being carried out - for some time.

It's pretty serious.

And I agree, the UK's lacklustre response earlier - as regards all those earlier hits - is part of the problem.

Not good.

I really do think we (the UK) should abandon Brexit as part of its response. Now would be a very good time to make a 'state of the nation' address, tell people Russia was involved in the Referendum, tell people Brexit suits Russia's agenda (and why), and tell people it's being parked for the foreseeable future.

frumpety · 15/03/2018 20:53

I think the use of the word 'culpable' is interesting too ?

thecatfromjapan · 15/03/2018 20:56

In other news, Hugo Rifkind is calling out Aron Banks on Twitter about 'omissions' and 'incongruities' in his evidence, regarding use of Cambridge Analytica, to the Fake News Inquiry.

Here

I wish there was the manpower and the will to a. chase the money and b. have a real Fake News investigation.

Still, this is all we have - so it's worth keeping an eye on what's coming out.

Aron Banks certainly seems to be counting on the fact that a. there isn't going to be the manpower to stop his 'omissions' in his answers to the committee and b. everyone's very distracted by all the other crap going on, so won't pay attention anyway.

frumpety · 15/03/2018 20:56

I also think that this Government cares as much about your average Russian citizen as it does about the average UK citizen. Not a great deal, if anything.

frumpety · 15/03/2018 20:58

Cat nothing like the old enemy kicking off to distract everyone from the new enemy , eh ?

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 15/03/2018 20:58

This accords with a lot of what I think too

We Can Both Hold Russia To Account For Salisbury, And Acknowledge Britain's Problematic Foreign Policy History

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/russia-jeremy-corbyn_uk_5aa46df6e4b07047bec712d4?61

thecatfromjapan · 15/03/2018 21:02

I think they're pretty intertwined, frumpety. I'm sure AB was a money-laundering channel, and some of that money found it's way to his Leave campaign. And CA was a big part of that.

Not sure you can actually say that. Not proven. And unprovable because there isn't the manpower and the time/skill to prove it. which is why no-one can say it. Even though everyone hints at it.

Sad
woman11017 · 15/03/2018 21:05

strength = war
pain This AI war started a few years back. It got purchase here and in US. Other EU countries have had a wiser approach. Germany's policies on SM for example. The concern now is their knocking out our power systems, as I understand it.

We can chuck out RT we can enforce Magnitsky act UK.
If 'we' wanted to. It's an existential choice, really. We seem to be being told we don't want to defend ourselves against this, which seems a bit odd.

thecatfromjapan · 15/03/2018 21:09

In an ideal world, this would all lead to a thoroughgoing questioning of the extent to which the UK's democratic structure has been undermined. It would start with serious op ed pieces in papers, discussing it, and it would turn into a commission with real bite, and it would end with a reinvigoration of the parts of UK public life that have been attacked.

The video lonelyplanetmum linked to up-thread shows what we should be doing: working at every level to make people aware of the damage - and offering powerful solutions - delivered in a direct, mass way.

It's not happening. People aren't joining the dots. It's still seen as disconnected and there is still no mainstream discussion of Putin's aims and the effect they have actually had.

Racism on the rise; a reinvigorted right; a move of the extreme right into the mainstream; a polarisation of political life; equally, a paralysis of political life in its response to this ... the list goes on.

Part of these issues have their roots in UK issues - but they were fanned during the referendum, in a very precise way, and there is a virtual silence about this.

It's the elephant in the room. I think a lot of politicians are a. hoping to turn it to political advantage (foolish) or b. hoping it will go away if we politely ignore it (it won't).

woman11017 · 15/03/2018 21:09

US officials said that malware had been found in the operating systems of several organisations and companies in the US energy, nuclear, water and “critical manufacturing” sector, and the malware as well as other form of cyber-attacks had been traced back to Moscow.

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/mar/15/russia-sanctions-energy-sector-cyber-attack-us-election-interference

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 15/03/2018 21:11

I thought we were on the same page, woman, and we are!

The not defending ourselves would be odd and unusual, except it's the exact same dynamic we're seeing in America with the government seemingly unconcerned about foreign powers perpetrating hostile acts upon them and taking no action to deter them.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 15/03/2018 21:14

Russian Meddling on Social Media Targeted U.S. Energy Industry, Report Says

Posts on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter were designed to influence energy policy, lawmakers say

www.wsj.com/articles/russian-meddling-on-social-media-targeted-u-s-energy-industry-report-says-1519902001

woman11017 · 15/03/2018 21:22

Smile pain
Even Mrs May has spotted this one:
May Seeks Alternatives for Russian Gas After Spy Scandal
www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-14/may-seeks-alternatives-for-russian-natural-gas-after-spy-scandal

RedToothBrush · 15/03/2018 21:32

Bonus for May on that one, make fracking look a political necessity...

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woman11017 · 15/03/2018 21:35

Oil wells in the empty traffic free south east on the way. Who needs trees anyway.

www.theguardian.com/business/2018/mar/15/new-oil-threat-looms-over-englands-national-park-land-campaigners-warn

RedToothBrush · 15/03/2018 22:01

Keiran Pedley @ keiranpedley
Hearing rumours of an 'interesting' YouGov poll in The Times tonight

They normally publish latest yougov poll around 10pm so anytime now...

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woman11017 · 15/03/2018 22:11

Coates Times

Verified account

@SamCoatesTimes
Tories take 3 point lead over Labour

YouGov / Times voting intention
CON 42%(+1)
LAB 39%(-4)
LDEM 7%(nc)

RedToothBrush · 15/03/2018 22:11

Sam Coates Times @ samcoatestimes
Tories take 3 point lead over Labour

YouGov / Times voting intention
CON 42%(+1)
LAB 39%(-4)
LDEM 7%(nc)

YouGov samples 1,986 GB adults March 14-15 (comparisons with March 5-6)

Going to stress, not to take at face value. Devil is in the detail of this (usually published middle of Friday). Needs to be analysed.

But....

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OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 15/03/2018 22:14

It's really just a lose-lose situation isn't it Sad. Caught between the devil and the deep blue tory sea