The Brexit Arms

[BrexitArmsLandlady]

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The Brexit thread.

By Brexiters, for Brexiters.

Remainers welcome, but gobshites & goadyfuckers are encouraged to take their business elsewhere.

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I see it looks like UK may have to start playing hard ball now If the eu won't budge.

What 'hardball' are you thinking snow?

We've have no other options?

We never did have?

I see it looks like UK may have to start playing hard ball now If the eu won't budge.

How...? With what...?

@Snowmagedon we shall stop sending them our jam and crumpets perhaps? That'll show em.

But as your so read up on the subject I'd have thought you'd be willing to tell us how the border situation in NI will be resolved when we are no longer in the SM/CU.

Struggling to make the connection between me saying I'd read a lot around the subject of the EU from a eurosceptic perspective prior to the Ref & 'how the border situation in Ireland will be resolved'.

Faith we can continue with the theoretical analysis of the way in which the EU institutions collectively exerted power over the UK to the extent that sovereignty was taken (ignoring the Govt confirmation that that was a feeling rather than fact) separately. I look forward to the various points being exchanged on this thread.

But then there is the international treaty governing the peace process on the island of Ireland (GFA/BA). Maintaining the UK obligations under that treaty is a here and now requirement. There are no parallel trade negotiations to determine our future trading relationship with the EU. If we are to leave the EU and maintain the UK obligations under the GFA/BA etc treaty the only solution is to maintain the SM/CU. Are we all agreed on that?

If not, we would have to either
renege on our GFA/BA etc treaty obligations
or
renege on the agreed order of discussions with the EU.

I really don't want to be accused of name calling again but I simply can't think of another word than 'deluded'

There's no basis in reality for faith or snows comments.

@bearbehind

Crumpets and jam. You're forgetting the power of crumpets and jam. And clotted cream.

I see it looks like UK may have to start playing hard ball now If the eu won't budge.

You mean crash out without a deal. Planes stop flying, goods (and people) stop moving and (most painful of all) the UK makes itself a complete laughing stock as it falls flat on it's face even before it's first test of post-Brexit prowess.

We once again return to the simple maths involved pitting the UK against 27 countries with a combined population of 450 millions.

I am one of those leave supporters who have been eurosceptic for years, and have read a lot around the subject.

Instead of reading around the subject, you may have spent your time better reading the subject direct

JWIM, the only way the border can be addressed (other than SM/CU) is by first knowing the shape & outline of the future relationship between the EU & UK.

This was scuppered initially by the narrow focus of stage 1, as we know.

This is why moving to the next stage should have been the point where possible solutions could have been formed & shaped (because the future relationship would become clearer).

If the EU continue to insist on 'sorting the border first' then it is essentially setting up the scenario you outlined itself.

It is attempting to force a SM/CU outcome.
I get why they're doing that, obviously, they want the SM/CU final outcome as it's best for them (Ireland/NI doesn't matter to them in the grand scheme of things, other than as a bargaining chip).

Instead of reading around the subject, you may have spent your time better reading the subject direct

Did you headtilt & tinkly laugh as you wrote that?

Here we go with the elusive "them" again.

Ireland is them. Get this into your big brain. Ireland drives this. The EU makes decisions like this on a unanimous bias.

FFS.

I can't see why this is true.

Because then it would be apparent as to the exact barriers which would be present.

It is wasted effort & time trying to cover every possible scenario - far more pragmatic & efficient to address the final scenario only.

By walking away from the the deal.
What ever the politicians decide will soon be overturned by reality of people wanting to make money.

This is where eu is out of line and out of touch.

Not sure what reading @FaithHopeCharityDesperation has done. But it sure doesn't align with the way things work anywhere.

There is ZERO chance of coming up with a solution to the Irish border unless NI stays in the SM and also the CU.

Period.

Not sure what reading @FaithHopeCharityDesperation* has done. But it sure doesn't align with the way things work anywhere.

There is ZERO chance of coming up with a solution to the Irish border unless NI stays in the SM and also the CU.

Period.*

Not sure what reading you've been doing, but I didn't ever claim to have researched the NI & Ireland border so am unsure why you are inferring that I have.

The only other solution is a border in the sea, which means not only are you wanting out of the EU, you are happy to break up the UK.

I suspect an awful lot of English people really don't understand the fundamental basics of the "U" in the UK. They think Scotland and Northern Ireland are like Yorkshire, or Devon - just places "in England".

Which is a damning indictment of how English schools teach their own history.

Atta girl @Snowmagedon

Walking away delusion. Again. No planes. No food. No nuclear fuel. No trade agreements. No nuclear isotopes. No medicines.

Clever.

@FaithHopeCharityDesperation

This is a quote for you.

JWIM, the only way the border can be addressed (other than SM/CU) is by first knowing the shape & outline of the future relationship between the EU & UK.

If you had read up on the subject you would know this is a falsehood.

But our Govt agreed to this order of negotiation/agreement. It cannot be changed, well not without a little loss of face and even weaker position for the UK.

There is no alternative to SM/CU as you indicate above. So you may interpret that as poor behaviour on the EU's part, some may disagree. What ever the motive, however you would have wished it other, the option of changing the order of discussion has gone. We are where we are.

Just to be clear, I too do not think your alternate view that some 'trade agreement' would address the border issue. It would not as the GFA/BA ect treaty works only on the basis of the SM/CU in place. Unless you were projecting a trade agreement negotiation that concluded with the SM/CU?

Because then it would be apparent as to the exact barriers which would be present.

It is now and was always fully apparent exactly which barriers are present- you just didn't want to see them

It is wasted effort & time trying to cover every possible scenario - far more pragmatic & efficient to address the final scenario only.

There were never endless scenarios; leaving SM/CU was a red line too far.

It goes back to the issue that we should never have been given the vote as it was never possible to actually leave the EU.

By walking away from the deal

That was never and still isn't an option either.