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Brexit

The Brexit Arms

999 replies

BrexitArmsLandlady · 08/03/2018 18:54

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The Brexit thread.

By Brexiters, for Brexiters.

Remainers welcome, but gobshites & goadyfuckers are encouraged to take their business elsewhere.

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25
Doubletrouble99 · 28/03/2018 20:29

Bear - but you said my suggestion wasn't worth debating so why need I bother!!

As for the idea that leavers are back peddling on our ideas. Not true at all. We all have dreams and aspirations and knew we had to compromise which is what is happening with some aspects of leaving.

Nobody is accusing anyone of sealioning here - well apart from remainers.
As for trolling - no didn't accuse anyone of trolling either Twofingers.

bearbehind · 28/03/2018 20:29

frumpety, to be fair to double it wasn't her that said both campaigns told a pack of lies, it was jasjas

frumpety · 28/03/2018 20:32

www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2018/mar/28/11-brexit-promises-leavers-quietly-dropped

I know , I know its the Guardian , but don your rubber gloves and face masks and have a read Leavers Grin

bearbehind · 28/03/2018 20:32

Nice try double

I said your solution for the border wasn't worth debating as it depends on technology that cannot be in place before we leave.

I subsequently asked why you 'always knew there was a cost to leaving the EU and what those elusive positives are which make it worth while.

If you can counter my point about the technology or give examples of the benefits of leaving that are worth the cost you always knew about, I'm all ears.

frumpety · 28/03/2018 20:33

Apologies Double Blush

bearbehind · 28/03/2018 20:36

That's funny frumpety, and then Leavers wonder why we think they are being brainwashed and dumbed down.

Dapplegrey · 28/03/2018 20:41

Bearbehind
Yes I do double because many have no sense of priority and are causing the country untold damage all for sentimental beliefs that are often misplaced anyway.

Whereas your preference for a country where only the 'intelligent' - e.g. those who agree with you - are allowed to vote, is not misplaced?

jasjas1973 · 28/03/2018 20:43

What pack of lies did the remain campaign tell ? That is an honest question because I don't remember any ( not saying none were uttered) And remember when answering that the UK is still currently in the EU

The remain side tried the scottish vote winning tactic and decided that they d tell the population the world as we know it will end, where as in fact it didnt, the £ dropped a lot but still higher than say 5 or 6 years ago.... the stock market is very high, unemployment still low, we ve had a rise in inflation and still not much in the way of wage rises.
the markets by now have factored in we are leaving.

Had remain publicised the advantages of the EU in a positive light, drilled into some of the BS from Leave and they might have won.

Like most economic and political decisions, the true affects of Brexit will be felt many years hence.

I can just about remember the 70s, the 3 day week and Spagbol was considered adventurous cooking, we ve come soooo much since then, the worlds 5th richest economy! all whilst IN the EU... we were a basket case outside, the danger is over time we ll just become and irrelevance again.

bearbehind · 28/03/2018 20:45

Not at all dapple I have no issue with who is allowed to vote but have always said I think people have a moral obligation to understand what they are voting for.

FaithHopeCharityDesperation · 28/03/2018 20:47

"I can't back up anything I say, therefore I'm going to accuse you of trolling."

The only accusations of trolling on the Brexit Arms threads have come from the remain contingent - usually under the 'must be a bot/shill/Russian' umbrella.

They get deleted.

Interestingly, the only deletions I've seen recently on the various Brexit threads have been Remainer posts.
A charming group of people!

frumpety · 28/03/2018 20:54

Dapplegrey is my favourite colour for a horse , when not on here I spend the odd hour on Dragon driving looking at little dapple grey ponies to buy , or Dun , a dun one would be a very close second.

Sorry completely lost my train of thought < idly opens a new tab>

Back to Brexit , I understand that Leavers disagree with me and I respect their right to a vote even if they don't agree with me, but when the arguments don't stack up or are being back pedalled on at a rate of knots, I am going to keep bringing it up Smile

frumpety · 28/03/2018 20:56

A donkey is third choice , but have you heard them? they are really noisy Grin

Dapplegrey · 28/03/2018 21:15

To think you should have to demonstrate a basic understanding of the facts before being allowed to vote
That's what you said, bear.
You frequently say that Leavers have no plans or solutions and so how can they understand facts on the subject if there are no facts to understand?
I guess you would rather leavers were not allowed to vote.

bearbehind · 28/03/2018 21:20

I'm not denying I said that dapple although I find it more than a little odd you've stalked a post that must be nearly 2 years old Hmm

Understanding the basic facts is fundamental to choosing which way to vote.

There's much more detail available now but the most basic of facts was always there was no plan for actually leaving.

Are you going to contribute to the current discussion or is there anything else I said 2 years ago you'd like to bring up?

AgnesSkinner · 28/03/2018 21:52

frumpety you need to have two donkeys at least - they get lonely otherwise. And noisy.

Dapplegrey · 28/03/2018 22:58

Are you going to contribute to the current discussion or is there anything else I said 2 years ago you'd like to bring up?

Bear you've said much the same thing over and over again for the past two years.

LondonMum8 · 29/03/2018 00:25

Interestingly, the only deletions I've seen recently on the various Brexit threads have been Remainer posts.
A charming group of people!

This comes from @FaithHopeCharityDesperation, who not very long ago was repeatedly frothing at the mouth calling me a "fcking bitch", and subsequently proclaiming she "doesn't give a fck" what people think about her posts - all for no reason other than her losing an argument. She then proceeds to report other people's messages under any minor pretence she can come up with, just for the kicks it would seem. Madness.

LondonMum8 · 29/03/2018 00:47

Anyway, as is only too apparent on this thread, the people who stirred up and manufactured Brexit are also responsible for the deep division it has caused. Some interesting musings on this below.

www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-brexit-portraits/

While the sample size is very small, it's interesting to see further evidence supporting the somewhat obvious intuition: people who didn't vote in the ref might be leaning more towards Remain.

LondonMum8 · 29/03/2018 01:16

Reposting a comment from the Guardian. Hopefully an interesting insight into construction of a robust democratic process built around referenda (many) - in stark contrast to our pre-criminal Brexit shambles.

Continentalcyclist 5h ago

I am Swiss, and I have participated in some 1,500 referendums over the last fifty-odd years.

And it is difficult for me to make sense of British democracy, and in particular the June 2016 referendum, for a number of reasons.

For one I have never understood why a parliamentary democracy with virtually no experience in referendum campaigns would conduct this referendum on a matter of vital national importance on untested ground.

For one the Swiss system would never have allowed a simple in-out question without any specifications of what the electorate was charging the legislative with.

For a second, in a matter of such national importance, we would have had a tier of votes, by the people, by both houses of parliament, and by the people again.

The first vote would have been a question about the constitution. It would have required a so-called double majority of the voters and the cantons. It would eg have mandated the government to negotiate exit terms with the EU. The negotiations would have been accompanied by parliamentary procedure, at every important stage of the negotiations. The exit terms would have gone to parliament for approbation by Act of Parliament. A second vote of the people could then have been called by 50,000 citizens (out of an electorate of approximately five million), and it certainly would have been called in a matter of such grave weight. The second referendum would have ratified the exit terms or rejected them.

Let me give an example. We had a proposal for a constitutional article (called initiative) on so-called mass immigration (MEI). It was carried by a majority of some 20,000 votes. The legislative then worked out an Act of Parliament. It said the new constitutional article contradicted a number of other constitutional norms and international treaties which had also been ratified by referendums. It declined to implement those parts of the new conssitutional article. The resulting Act of Parliament could have been voted about, but interestingly the proponents of MEI did not call for one. Instead, populists that they are, they screamed themselves blue in their faces about how the will of the people had been disregarded and the Constitution trashed.

Like the Brexiteers they had never expected to carry the day and were obviously rather glad that "the will of the people" had been foiled, without admitting it, of course. They preferred to have cause to gripe and whine.

Now the Swiss system would obviously be somewhat cumbersome to apply to negotiations with twenty-seven partners in the EU. And in my modest view it was certainly reckless of David Cameron to call the referendum in the first place. But if people are called to the polls on a simple leave-remain question, they must certainly have another say about whether their will has been implemented. In the light of the Brexit negotiations, they have a right to another referendum, all the more because the first referendum was advisory.

The Swiss voters have changed their minds over a vast number of issues over time and reversed earlier decisions. And in the cascades of votes, first on general constitutional principles, then on their implementation, they have often come to see an earlier decision as rather foolish and revised it.

In the case of Britain and the Mother of Parliaments, I share Clement Attlee's reservations on referendums. But if you wish to resort to the referendum system, you should give the electorate a minimal practice run on the communal and county level before jumping headlong into the first and only vote on the most important question confronting the UK since 1945.

And at the very least the electorate must get a second vote, at the conclusion of the process.

BrandySchnapps · 29/03/2018 01:51

This comes from @FaithHopeCharityDesperation, who not very long ago was repeatedly frothing at the mouth calling me a "fcking bitch", and subsequently proclaiming she "doesn't give a fck" what people think about her posts - all for no reason other than her losing an argument.

Au contraire.

As you well know, that 'frothing at the mouth' was in response to your disgusting treatment of another poster - co-opting her mental health distress & suicidal ideation for your shitty soapbox.

I stand by those posts still.
Your behaviour & attitude towards that poster was abhorrent.

BrandySchnapps · 29/03/2018 01:56

Namechange fail (above post) - I've changed name recently but was still posting here as FaithHopeCharityDesperation as that was my name on this thread.

Have reported to MN, as I'm not sock-puppeting, it was just a mistake.

frumpety · 29/03/2018 06:28

There are two 5yr old geldings ( lovely chocolate coloured ones ) for £750 , wanna go halves Agnes ? Smile

frumpety · 29/03/2018 06:33

Going back to Brexit briefly , did any of the Leavers on here read the Guardian link I posted ?

GhostofFrankGrimes · 29/03/2018 06:40

That Guardian link should leave every Brexiteer red faced.

DrivenToDespair · 29/03/2018 06:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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