The Brexit Arms

[BrexitArmsLandlady]

🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

The Brexit thread.

By Brexiters, for Brexiters.

Remainers welcome, but gobshites & goadyfuckers are encouraged to take their business elsewhere.

🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

I don't expect the evidence to be put in the public domain but I do expect it to be presented to whoever we accuse.

I just find it very odd we've gone in all guns blazing on this with very little basis it seems.

There appears to be nothing more than the nerve agent used was developed in Russia- that's not conclusive evidence Putin was behind it.

Well, on thing is clear: Brexit is definitely something Putin couldn't be happier about.

The Government are having the samples tested at an independent lab. in Europe which I think is the correct way to go.
I think it's just ridiculous to suggest it is anyone other than the Russians. Why on earth would anyone else bother, what on earth would anyone else have to gain.
What I object to is Corbin using his statement to 'have a go at the government'. That certainly was not the time and was extremely inappropriate. I would also say that we should show strength in the face of things like this and we certainly don't need the likes of JC diminishing it in any way.

So if the government are still having the samples tested independently, why are they categorically stating it was Russia already?

if Russia really wanted to put the cat amongst the pigeons, they could have done better than this.

JC wasn't 'diminishing it' IMO, he was just saying that until we have conclusive evidence, we should tread cautiously; which I agree with.

The timing is certainly very interesting, also why would the Russians carry this out in such an obviously identifiable way, other than to cause a powerless British uproar before the elections. Are the test results in yet? If not then perhaps agent Boris should keep his mouth shut instead of playing into Putin's hand again.

They know what the nerve agent is. Only Russia made it. It comes from Russia. It's not something anyone can cook up in their kitchen.
Only Putin had anything to gain by doing this. He thinks he can make a fool of us as we are seen to be weak at the moment due to Brexit.

"He thinks he can make a fool of us as we are seen to be weak at the moment due to Brexit."

Well, he knows it and he just did, at least twice in a space of 2 years. Many thanks to Boris, Arron, Nigel, Mike G. etc.

I'm confused by the Russia did or didn't discussion.

Even if it is false and Russia did not order the Salisbury attack, do we believe they don't deserve sanctions for all the other times Russia has attacked us anyway? And does daily?

www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/iain-dale/ex-gchq-boss-warns-uk-russian-cyber-attacks/

He thinks he can make a fool of us as we are seen to be weak at the moment due to Brexit.

And who's fault is that?

Russia absolutely does deserve sanctions, but to be fair we should also sanction ourselves for being the useful idiots who invoked Brexit.. Oh wait, Brexit will actually have the effect of a gigantic set of self-imposed sanctions so all good there.

olivia, that's a bizarre logic.

You can't say you're going to blame someone for A because they deserve it due to X, Y and Z.

@bearbehind

I'm saying it doesn't matter. Salisbury may or may not have been the fault of the Russians.

If Russia wasn't responsible for this particular attack, I don't care. Russia needs to back off all the other daily aggressions anyway. And needs a bloody nose for all the shit it has done to us in the past.

Russia is not like a house pet that needs to be sanctioned immediately and every time it does something. Russia has a memory. It knows what it has done and what it continues to do.

I know this sounds hawkish to you, but nothing else works with this lot. In my view we should be giving it back to them in kind.

We will probably never know this but I would not view it as inappropriate if GCHQ launched cyber attacks on specific Russian targets

Well I completely disagree olivia

Of course it 'matters'

We can't go round accusing other countries of perpetrating specific attacks just because 'they deserve it'

@bearbehind

Well let's just invite the Russians to do more then. Because it's working out so well for us.

I didn't say the accusations should be baseless. I said even if it's wrong in this particular case, it doesn't matter because Russia has attacked so many times without retribution that they bloody well deserve it.

olivia, I find that view point deeply disturbing.

It's like the whole Leave concept; it doesn't matter what the facts are, Leavers just want it and don't care how it happens.

The best/only way for us to hit Putin is to cancel Brexit.

For once I agree with Bear! Olivia, I completely disagree with you. If you are punishing someone, be it a child or a State you must be completely clear why you are punishing them and it must be absolutely clear we will not put up with this type of action on our soil.

@bear

This is not even in the same league. From what I know, the evidence is incontrovertible that Russia has attacked us. These are facts. Brexhsit is devoid of factual evidence supporting its implementation.

It also seems to be the case in respect of the Salisbury attacks as we have convinced Drumpf, France and Germany of this.

What you and Double are saying is we should be clearer that we are punishing Russia for other things they've done too.

Fine. So let's change the message. Agree.

But do you think for a moment that we haven't already told Russia to back off repeatedly? that Russian has listened or even done anything? Or that refining the communications even matters to them?

You are both coming across as naive. To me at least.

Only Russia made it. It comes from Russia. It's not something anyone can cook up in their kitchen.

An awful lot of research has gone into things you can cook up in a kitchen. Both explosives and nerve agents. What do you think the 7/7 bombers were up to ?

Not really sure the UK should be surprised. We invented the idea in WW2 with SOE. Who were trained in ways of making bombs from everyday ingredients. (That pesky history again).

I think what is Naive is to think we have any power to sanction Russia in a way that is going to worry Putin in the slightest.

Maybe if we could get our friends to do so as well - oh wait, we haven't got any any more, thanks to Brexit...

You are both coming across as naive.

I don’t think it is in the least bit ‘naive’ to think we should blame a country for 1 things just because it has firm for other things.

That is a very dangerous path to go down.

Maybe if we could get our friends to do so as well - oh wait, we haven't got any any more, thanks to Brexit...

What’s actually happening

The EU has offered the UK "unqualified solidarity" in its investigation into the poisoning of ex-Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter in Salisbury

@DGRossetti I'm not a chemist but I understand from chemist interviews - including a Russian one who worked in the Russian factories- that:

• making the agent is not hard
• but it is incredibly dangerous and would require special skills to handle
• weaponising is a completely different ball game. And he did not know how this could be done

The point I was making Rossetti is that it has to be made in a lab as it's extremely dangerous and volatile. It would hardly be the method of choice for anyone else other than a state who has access to it and want to show everyone how it can kill people in the West and get away with it. It plays very well into the hands of Putin in his assertion of the idea that the West is the evil enemy.

The thing is though double it didn’t kill them.

Which makes it more likely it was a copy cat type thing IMO.