The Brexit Arms

[BrexitArmsLandlady]

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The Brexit thread.

By Brexiters, for Brexiters.

Remainers welcome, but gobshites & goadyfuckers are encouraged to take their business elsewhere.

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DH never pursued his French dual nationality partly because of compulsory military service.

A bullet I managed to dodge by the skin of my teeth. My DF "didn't realise" that by registering me as an Italian citizen, he was also signing me up to national service. Unusually here, permission is easier than forgiveness, and if I had filled in the right form (declaring I was resident in the UK) before I was 18, all would have been well.

But because I didn't know, rather than exemption, I got listed as AWOL - which would have been picked up on holiday ...

I was on the fence but voted Leave because it makes it very difficult for the SNP to pursue Independence while wishing away all the practical economic complexities.

So you would be annoyed if Brexit led to a break up of the UK with an independent Scotland chasing EU membership ? Especially if the break up was pushed from Westminster, rather than pulled from Holyrood ?

time4chocolate
Yes they would and they are playing the last card in their hand
Do they need to play any other cards when that is such a weighted ace?
They have a desired outcome.
It is clear, simple, understandable, requires minimal adjustment to most things.

The UK has still not stated what it actually wants in terms that can be written into a contract
so it can keep throwing cards on the table but its not adding up to 21 yet

I would be happy with In the UK outside the EU or outside the UK and the EU. It was the outside the UK in the EU position I objected to.

I am also not particularly happy with the Smith Commission settlement and the partial devolution of taxation and benefits implementation is already throwing up impracticalities. Brexit and the "power grab" would be an ideal time to address this if the politicians would engage rather than grandstanding.

The Irish issue only bothers me in so far as almost everyone I know has friends and relations in Scotland, England, NI and Ireland who all travel and do business in all 4 places and the current position from the EU seems to completely ignore this reality.

the current position from the EU seems to completely ignore this reality
No
the EU is utterly aware of the reality
its the Three Brexiteers who seem unaware of where we are starting from

DGR an Independent Scotland pursuing EU membership is highly unlikely, whatever the current rhetoric. The 55% + who voted against Indyref don't want it and neither do upwards of a third of the 45% who voted for Indyref.

So why are they suggesting a border in the Irish Sea Talk?

howabout
So why are they suggesting a border in the Irish Sea
Because they are trying to get it into the thick heads of the UK "negotiating team" that if the UK does leave the SM / CU the hard border CANNOT be where it used to be under the GFA
and there has to be a hard border at the edge of the EU
same as there is where the EU meets Ukraine, Serbia, Turkey etc etc

@TalkinPeace

Agree with your statement save for the thick heads bit. UKGov knows all this. It's a game being played so as to blame the EU when it all fails.

May is on record pre ref describing this very issue.

Yes they would and they are playing the last card in their hand

Yet again complete and utter delusional tosh.

What 'cards' do you think we have?

This isn't even the last card the EU have but it trumps everything because we can't counter it.

No hard border equals remain in SM/CU.

The Irish issue only bothers me in so far as almost everyone I know has friends and relations in Scotland, England, NI and Ireland who all travel and do business in all 4 places and the current position from the EU seems to completely ignore this reality.

I don't really know where to start with that comment.

• I'm only bothered about this in so far as it affects me and mine- check

• Everything is the EU's fault- check

The thought process of Leavers really is staggeringly simplistic.

Does any Leave supporter disagree with Bear's statement?

No hard border equals remain in SM/CU.

Does everyone understand why she says this?

A large number of Indyref No voters also voted Remain because politicians of all stripes told them that was the best way to avoid Indyref2. It is far from clear to me that they cared either way about the EU as evidenced by the low turnout compared to Indyref and the Conservatives now having 13 seats. Even among those who are strongly No / Remain they tend to be far more concerned about the No than the Remain - these tend to be the small "c" conservatives and pragmatists who prioritise the relationship with the UK above the EU - my DM falls into this category.

Bear - delusional tosh😀

I will concede maybe not their last card but their ace card in trying to get us to stay in the SM/CU don’t you think or is there a better one?

I did point out I didn't see the issue earlier bear and am still waiting patiently to have it explained in words of one syllable which resonate with me.

It doesn't matter if there's a better card time, we've got nothing else to put down.

What part of that do you disagree with?

Is it not the current position from the UK which is the problem? Ireland, as an EU member, made sure that it was one of the 3 issues which had to be dealt with before moving on. Maybe good foresight in light of DD's wink, wink on what they his bunch had agreed.

May signed up to this. Well, subject to Foster's nod. The DUP and Con's need to square where that border goes. Based on their chosen red lines. No SM or CU in the referendum. The DUP don't speak for everyone in NI. As they spin a safely obstructive fury, SDLP and and SF don't want a hard border on the island of Ireland. Ireland don't want a hard border on the island of Ireland. May has said there won't be a hard border on the island of Ireland. Most leavers in gov't have said it. However, they didn't even understand or care about what they were talking about so confidently. They were talking about CTA. not goods. And now we find out they hadn't an effing clue and no workable plan. Except to say you work out the unworkable plan based on our red lines

They are getting nasty, because they were exposed and now have to put their money where their mouths are.

Would be surprised if a hard border in the Irish Sea does not also contravene the GFA by cutting NI off from rUK?

I'm not sure I can do it in words of one syllable howabout but it's not a difficult concept.

If we leave the SM/CU things change.

Goods cannot travel freely between the UK and the EU therefore there needs to be a border of some description.

Otherwise every other country would want and be entitled to expect the same.

It is the DUP safely spinning an obstructive fury. Plus ca change.

Cailleach the EU agreed there had been "sufficient" progress in December. There was no undertaking from the UK to have resolved it and they have and do maintain that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. It is the EU who are trying to rewrite the December wording into terms they were explicitly told were not acceptable then.

A large number of Indyref No voters also voted Remain because politicians of all stripes told them that was the best way to avoid Indyref2.

And because there was a project fear that an independent Scotland would not be an EU member, so the only (not best, only) way to remain in the EU was to reject independence.

Speaking solely for myself, in England, I totally agree with anyone in Scotland who feels cheated, and as a result of Brexit parameters have changed and a second IndyRef is justified.

I wasn't that engaged with the first one (not having a vote or a view). But I would actively support a second, if it were called for. A curse of the myth of English fair play ?