Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westministenders: One for the Women

977 replies

RedToothBrush · 08/03/2018 10:23

Just remember that women are more likely to be worried about Brexit.

Their women's and workers rights are more at risk from departure from the EU, the ECJ and potentially the EHCR.
They are more likely to be worried as EU citizens in the UK due to taking time to have and raise families.
They are more likely to have been badly affected by austerity and an economic downturn will hit them first.
If they are leavers they are more likely to have changed their minds.
They are less likely to be MPs so have less representation.
They are more likely to be feeling politically unrepresented by any party and unsure of who they will vote for at the next election.
They are more likely to get abuse for expressing a political opinion. Many report having been subjected to sexual harassment from political colleagues.
They are more likely to be the target of abuse on social media.
They are earn less than their political colleagues, they earn less than their media colleagues, they earn less than their business colleagues. They are less likely to be in powerful lobby groups.

Then there's #metoo

And to cap it off women's groups are finding it hard to get their voice heard, and are frequently being labelled as hysterical or bigoted for merely wanting to discuss things and be reassured that their fears are acknowledged. They are frequently dismissed as liars or over sensitive.

This is 2018.

It doesn't feel progressive. It doesn't look equal.

Brexit has more of an impact on women.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
23
lalalonglegs · 12/03/2018 09:35

To be fair, Olivia, that hasn't been clarified yet. There does seem to be evidence that the UK could unilaterally revoke A50 but the ultimate arbiter of that would be the ECJ and, so far, the question hasn't reached it. It would also take a huge political crisis - rather than the application of common sense - to bring that end about. A no-deal scenario could trigger that crisis but, given the way no deal is talked up in some circles, I wouldn't bet on it.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2018 09:35

math Russian intelligence - in the tradition of the KGB before them - have a long history of murdering defectors in painful and public ways, to discourage anyone else who is thinking of defecting or spying for the West.

Skripal was a British spy who gave important info to the UK while working in Russian intelligence;
he damaged ttherefore a clear target

it is ludicrous that any Brexiter would manage to get hold of nerve gas - of a kind only certain countries possess - and try to murder a Russian defector as a distraction

Russia Today even gloated and warned defectors that the Uk wasn't safe for them

I don't know why you keep defending Putin / Russia even when there is hard evidence they commit crimes in the UK & other Western countries

BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2018 09:42

Olivia The legal issues wrt revoking A50 aren't clear, but most legal / political opinion is that
it would require the unanimous consent of all 27 countries as well as the UK

In practice, if the UK tried to revoke,

the EU would accept gratefully if they thought this would be an end to the matter
BUT
probably oppose in the courts if they thought it just a negotiating ploy, with the UK intending to invoke again as soon as the govt was properly prepared this time

or even if the UK planned to repeatedly revoke and invoke to be deliberately disruptive, to try to force the EU to give a cake deal

  • the EU were reportedly very worried about this possible tactic at one time.
OliviaD68 · 12/03/2018 09:43

@lalalonglegs

This is all true.

My point was ensuring people don't necessarily take it as a given that we need the EU to allow to revoke A50. I also wanted to point out it may even go further than this in terms of A50 lapsing if Parliament does nothing.

I also agree no deal might spur the political crisis needed. Not that we are not already in crisis!

OliviaD68 · 12/03/2018 09:46

@BigChocFrenzy

Most legal / political opinion?

Where?

You may be right politically. Legally I have only heard about A50's unilateral revocability. From decent sources of course. I tend to ignore radical noise.

prettybird · 12/03/2018 09:56

I understood the same as BigChocFrenzy : while there is indeed an opinion that the UK could revoke A50 unilaterally, it has not been tested and there are alternative legal opinions that it cannot. Especially as, arguably, the UK did go through the "constitutional requirements" (in as much as this can be established, given that we don't have a written constitution Confused) with having a vote in parliament giving May the authority to in invoke it HmmAngry

Yes, the EU may be pragmatic and practical (and relieved Wink) and allow us to revoke it - but it may come with conditions, required by the E27, that we can't keep the threat of A50 - with all the associated damage and work it has been creating for the E28 - hanging over the E27. The limbo is dangerous - mostly to the UK but also to the E27.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2018 09:58

Olivia The only real weapon Parliament has is to either bring down the govt,
or threaten to do so unless they go for a deal.

The problems I see are:

  • A number of Tory MPs would have to vote with Labour to install Corbyn as PM, or make a convincing threat to do so. This would be extraordinary and probably mean an end to their careers as MPs.

  • Some Labour Brexiters like Hoey & Field might vote with the govt, requiring even more Tory rebels

  • Corbyn's Brexit proposals are also cherry-picking to an extent that would prevent a deal anyway

  • His more radical plans, possibly that he hasn't mentioned, might genuinely be prevented by EEA/ EFTA.
    His call immediately after the EU Ref to invoke A50 is worrying
    He seems to have decided that playing the immigration card gets more votes, hence EFTA would be a difficult sell (EFTA Article 112 allowing a country to halt immigration looks iffy in practice for a country of Uk size)

  • The least risky option for Tory Remainers is to talk tough, but back down in the end
    They certainly won't support JC if there is the slightest risk that he might cause a no-deal Brexit.

Probably they would only support Labour if JC goes and a new leader offers a coalition on Brexit only

MimpiDreams · 12/03/2018 10:15

I wonder how many other companies have done this with only minimal publicity.

DH noticed recently that a company he deals with occasionally has already gone. I can't remember the details but it's some sort of chemical forensics related testing facility which is one of a kind. He wondered how this would affect the police as it's the only place this test can be done. They can still get the test done but it would mean sending evidence abroad.

lonelyplanetmum · 12/03/2018 10:41

I wonder how many other companies have done this with only minimal publicity.

DH has noticed this too. There are stats kept of business failures (with graphs) and I'm googling but it's all very confusing!

TheElementsSong · 12/03/2018 10:49

@Icantreachthepretzels

Thanks for the info on marches! Yes, I think you're right and we should not try to join up before our appointment - but will do our damnedest to catch up with the marchers afterwards.

mrsreynolds · 12/03/2018 11:13

I've just pledged - thanks for the link

Dh is still very much head in the sand over this

BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2018 11:20

Olivia The legal issues wrt revoking A50 are very unclear.
This Sussex uni blogger lays out the legal arguments:

blogs.sussex.ac.uk/uktpo/2017/03/17/can-a-notification-under-article-50-teu-be-unilaterally-withdrawn/

OliviaD68 · 12/03/2018 11:44

@BigChocFrenzy

I agree it's unclear. This is why Jo Maugham's court case will be helpful.

mrsreynolds · 12/03/2018 11:59

Interesting and deeply depressing that jo maugham will not suffer the same abuse as gina miller

OliviaD68 · 12/03/2018 12:16

@mrsreynolds

What makes you think he hasn't?

Maybe the abuse and threats aren't sexist but do you think the right wing nutjobs would spare him?

mrsreynolds · 12/03/2018 12:37

I havent seen any

He hasn't had to have police protection

Icantreachthepretzels · 12/03/2018 12:39

There was a lot of racism in the Gina Miller threats. And brexit is a racist ideology. Jo Maugham won't get those ones.

Peregrina · 12/03/2018 12:40

I have seen criticism of Jo Maugham and I am quite sure that if he's successful there will be plenty more, although admittedly being white and male will help to mitigate that.

OliviaD68 · 12/03/2018 12:49

I had forgotten Gina Miller has dark skin. Shows how little I care.

But the extreme right will care. You are right.

Still, I'm sure Jo Maugham has received his share of abuse though less than Gina because male and white.

Sickening.

lonelyplanetmum · 12/03/2018 12:55

I'm sharing a list from a 48% website. I did my own list upthread but this list has more detail.

List follows...

lonelyplanetmum · 12/03/2018 12:56

So let me get this right, to date, industries either moving, considering moving, reducing capacity, or shutting up shop due to Brexit uncertainty and rising costs due to the weak £, now stands at;

  • Airlines.
  • Car factories. At risk 2.7 million workers
  • Financial services. 2.19 million workers
  • Component factories in aerospace and car tech.
  • Games tech companies, 40% of which are considering moving to the EU.
  • Restaurants & hotels - Jamie’s, Prezzo, Strada, Chimichanga, as people start to tighten their belts, middle range eateries suffer. 4.49 million workers in hospitality.
  • Retailers ( ToysRus, Maplin - gone already; New Look, House of Fraser, Debenhams, Homebase, Marks & Spencer - restructuring, Next and JLP issuing profit warnings) with many others showing significant drops in profit or issuing profit warnings, not to mention struggling independents, all struggling to cope with the falling pound. 2.6 million workers in retail.
  • 46% of EU companies with a UK base will be reducing UK capacity. 15% will remove all operations to the EU, 28% will move a “significant” proportion, & 29% will move smaller parts of their operation.

That’s a total of over 12 millions workers in these industries.

Then there’s the other crap that comes with leaving the EU:

  • Good Friday agreement in danger
  • Reintroduction of roaming charges
  • Geoblocking - we won’t get it!
  • More expensive food, due to weak £ and import costs.
  • Increased cost of fuels, gas, electric & petrol plus possible supply issues.
  • Less money for services for example; NHS, local councils, schools etc.
  • Leaving Euratom
  • Loss of Euroclear
  • Brain drain of EU staff from Universities and British staff seeking better opportunities elsewhere.
  • Loss of EU staff in NHS leaving some areas critically understaffed
  • Loss of EU staff from hospitality industry, hotels & restaurants all struggling to recruit.
  • Food rotting in fields due to lack of migrant workers.
  • Stagnating economy, with prolonged recession looming.
  • Fisheries losing their biggest market (EU) which may cause the collapse of the industry in some areas, (Grimsby being one), due to being uncompetitive if there is no free trade agreement. Loss of EMFF.
  • Reduced opportunities for our school and uni leavers.
  • Removal of farming subsidies.
  • Loss of regeneration cash to ex heavy industry or poor communities ( for example, North East, Wales, Cornwall).
  • Gibraltar- that’s got to pop over the parapet soon!
  • Food shortages, 1/3 of U.K. food is imported.
  • End of Erasmus scheme. *Loss of “Open Skies” agreement. *Relaxation of workers’ rights, regarding hours, pregnancy, minimum wage, and so on. Making it easier to fire people.
  • Loss of trading opportunity ( has anyone actually checked out the WTO rules )!
  • Becoming “little Britain”, we are a service nation, not a manufacturing one, Shipping, steel and mining are never coming back.
  • Potential break up of Great Britain, Starting with Scotland.
  • EHIC card and the right to reciprocal healthcare in the union.
  • Relaxation of health and safety rules following exit to the detriment of workers and the general public.
  • Exit from the ECtHR. European Courts of Human Rights
  • Exit from CFREU & ECFR - Charter of Fundamental Rights of European Union & European Charter of Fundamental rights. Which protects our rights to equality, non discrimination and human rights under EU law. This also covers the Amber Alert System.
  • European Medical Agency moved to Amsterdam (underway already)
  • European Banking Authority (move to Paris, underway already)
  • Loss of funding for cancer research and other critical medical research projects: Joint Research Centre.
  • Loss of reciprocal cross country research into illnesses, and treatment.
  • Loss of research grants across all areas, resulting in further brain drain.
  • Loss of access for critical cancer drugs
  • Lack of clarity as to rights of EU nationals domiciled in the UK.
  • 2.2 million UK expats living in the union (either full or part time) may lose rights to UK pensions & reciprocal healthcare, resulting in them having to return to the UK adding additional strain on the NHS and council services.
  • UK border controls revert to Dover from Calais.
  • Leaving the ECJ which poses significant risks to our security.
  • Loss of freedom of movement within the EU, possible reintroduction of costly visas.
  • Impact on Sports, Art & Culture, due to freedom of movement restraints, costs of importing / exporting equipment and livestock, loss of the CEMCP.
  • UK driving licence no longer valid in EU & loss of green card insurance scheme and loss of Euro NCAP support.
  • Leaving the Single Market.
  • Leaving the Customs Union.
  • Leaving Joint Action on Climate Change.
  • Animal welfare and sentience laws: Natura 2000 programme.
  • Wildlife Safeguards & Habitat Protection.
  • Harmonisation in industrial standards & CE standards.
  • Food safety and consumer protection (chlorinated chicken anyone?) EFSA.
  • Risk of NHS being “sold off” in a US trade deal.
  • Exit from Horizon 2020 science programme.
  • Compensation for lost luggage and cancelled flights.
  • Loss of European Maritime safety agency along with the Ports of Refuge for ships in distress, plus the Ship Recycling directive.
  • 700+ trade deals to be negotiated in case of no deal, trade deals taking on average between 7-20 years, to thrash out and we don’t have enough competent trade specialists to handle even 5 of them at a time. The Swiss / EU deal still hasn’t been ratified and they started that in 1972!!

.....

When will someone in power; frankly anyone, have the balls to stand up and say; this is all crap! It’s going to hurt us immeasurably, it will take us generations to recover, probably only by reentering the EU, but with no power of veto as we now have.

And we are doing this why? To regain a sovereignty we never actually lost, and to control our borders, that we already had control of, (just didn’t make use of the laws open to us)! The country really has gone totally insane!

lonelyplanetmum · 12/03/2018 12:57

It's from a 48% group but I understand the author is encouraging people to share it.

OliviaD68 · 12/03/2018 13:03

Great list!!! I'm nicking it!

lonelyplanetmum · 12/03/2018 13:06

Also Leo Varadkar has said no to the registration plan.

A good basic point. Cameras, scanners etc if they get vandalised. How do you protect them? With guards?

goo.gl/aewyLo

Swipe left for the next trending thread