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Brexit

Westministenders: One for the Women

977 replies

RedToothBrush · 08/03/2018 10:23

Just remember that women are more likely to be worried about Brexit.

Their women's and workers rights are more at risk from departure from the EU, the ECJ and potentially the EHCR.
They are more likely to be worried as EU citizens in the UK due to taking time to have and raise families.
They are more likely to have been badly affected by austerity and an economic downturn will hit them first.
If they are leavers they are more likely to have changed their minds.
They are less likely to be MPs so have less representation.
They are more likely to be feeling politically unrepresented by any party and unsure of who they will vote for at the next election.
They are more likely to get abuse for expressing a political opinion. Many report having been subjected to sexual harassment from political colleagues.
They are more likely to be the target of abuse on social media.
They are earn less than their political colleagues, they earn less than their media colleagues, they earn less than their business colleagues. They are less likely to be in powerful lobby groups.

Then there's #metoo

And to cap it off women's groups are finding it hard to get their voice heard, and are frequently being labelled as hysterical or bigoted for merely wanting to discuss things and be reassured that their fears are acknowledged. They are frequently dismissed as liars or over sensitive.

This is 2018.

It doesn't feel progressive. It doesn't look equal.

Brexit has more of an impact on women.

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BigChocFrenzy · 10/03/2018 22:16

Yup, with the UK out of the way, the EU is expected to fairly easily complete its FTA with India

  • it was bogged down when the UK vetoed visas for tech workers & their immediate family, that India wanted.

Germany would welcome more Indians, as would most E27 countries - noone really objected except for the UK.

woman11017 · 10/03/2018 22:17

Thanks BCF; there's no need to strike if you have reps to negotiate,and the culture is one of compromise. What Barbara Castle would have got us if "In Place of Strife" had been accepted by Wilson. From workers and management, to football, to the judicial system, to parliament, our attachment to faux adversarialism, just maintains and strengthens the status quo.

woman11017 · 10/03/2018 22:19

Brexism is the prime example of this fake adversarialism. Two sides which don't exist, while the real power mongers consolidate.

woman11017 · 10/03/2018 22:37

Just posted:

We’re taking David Davis to court because the Government is trying to remove a law that embeds the right to a meaningful vote and brings about the possibility of a public vote on the terms of the Brexit deal

www.crowdjustice.com/case/brexitchallenge/

BigChocFrenzy · 10/03/2018 22:56

Brexit: EU Parliament to call for association agreement with UK

https://www.theparliamentmagazine.eu/articles/news/brexit-eu-parliament-call-association-agreement-uk

The resolution takes a tough stance with the UK on some issues, notably citizens’ rights,
and recommends what Verhofstadt called a “broad, intense and detailed” association agreement with the UK.

Verhofstadt said, “We are being more ambitious and specific than just saying we need an FTA.”

There would, he said, be four “specific pillars” to any such deal with the UK:

  • trade and economics;
  • international security and defence;
  • internal security, justice and home affairs;
  • and thematic cooperation, for example, covering the Erasmus scheme, Horizon 2020, Europol, fisheries policy, Euratom and the aviation sector.
RedToothBrush · 10/03/2018 23:20

Eloise Todd @eloisetodd
BREAKING: We’re taking David Davis to court!

We may already have the right to a people’s vote on the terms of Brexit. +we definitely need a meaningful vote in Parliament

Please support+RT

Steve Bullock @GuitarMoog
This is potentially very important indeed.

@Andrew_Adonis said last week that the Govt. is keen for the Withdrawal Bill to allow repeal of the 2011 Act (requiring a ref on treaty amendments) as early as possible, not on Brexit day as with the other EU Acts. Is this perhaps why?

It seems insane that a referendum would have been legally required to slightly change EU voting rules, but that it would not be necessary for an entire replacement of the EU treaties with a new one.

In case you aren't following, David Cameron changed the law, after pressure from Eurosceptics to prevent changes to our relationship with the EU without a referendum.

Background (from Wikipedia:

The Bill was introduced before parliament as a reaction to the European Union (Amendment) Act 2008, which had in the United Kingdom and Gibraltar instituted the Treaty of Lisbon with no participation by the Labour Prime Minister of the day, Gordon Brown and with no referendum, although one had been promised in 2005 in the Labour manifesto.

The Conservative - Liberal Democrat Coalition Agreement pledged in 2010:

to "ensure that there is no further transfer of sovereignty or powers over the course of the next Parliament";

to "amend the 1972 European Communities Act so that any proposed future treaty that transferred areas of power, or competences, would be subject to a referendum on that treaty"; and

to "examine the case for a United Kingdom Sovereignty Bill to make it clear that ultimate authority remains with Parliament".

The Queen's speech reaffirmed that legislation would be introduced "to ensure that in future this Parliament and the British people have their say on any proposed transfer of powers to the European Union".

Now I think there is definitely a case here. Especially if in leaving the EU we effectively are handing our power to make decides to the EU during a transition period in the short term.

The thing here now, whether the government could repeal it now, if there is a legal case in action using the clause? If they did they risk looking like they are trying to fix the rules and go against the law. Plus if the Lords opposed or delayed the change to the law, then repealing it couldn't happen anyway.

The actual act can be found here:
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2011/12/part/1

It states:

Treaties amending or replacing Treaty on European Union (TEU) or Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union (TFEU)

(1) A treaty which amends or replaces TEU or TFEU is not to be ratified unless—

(a) a statement relating to the treaty was laid before Parliament in accordance with section 5,
(b) the treaty is approved by Act of Parliament, and
(c) the referendum condition or the exemption condition is met.

(2)The referendum condition is that—
(a) the Act providing for the approval of the treaty provides that the provision approving the treaty is not to come into force until a referendum about whether the treaty should be ratified has been held throughout the United Kingdom or, where the treaty also affects Gibraltar, throughout the United Kingdom and Gibraltar,
(b) the referendum has been held, and
(c) the majority of those voting in the referendum are in favour of the ratification of the treaty.

(3) The exemption condition is that the Act providing for the approval of the treaty states that the treaty does not fall within section

4 Cases where treaty or Article 48(6) decision attracts a referendum
(1) Subject to subsection (4), a treaty or an Article 48(6) decision falls within this section if it involves one or more of the following—

(a) the extension of the objectives of the EU as set out in Article 3 of TEU;
(b) the conferring on the EU of a new exclusive competence;
(c) the extension of an exclusive competence of the EU;
(d)the conferring on the EU of a new competence shared with the member States;
(e) the extension of any competence of the EU that is shared with the member States;
(f) the extension of the competence of the EU in relation to—
(i) the co-ordination of economic and employment policies, or
(ii) common foreign and security policy;
(g) the conferring on the EU of a new competence to carry out actions to support, co-ordinate or supplement the actions of member States;
(h) the extension of a supporting, co-ordinating or supplementing competence of the EU;
(i) the conferring on an EU institution or body of power to impose a requirement or obligation on the United Kingdom, or the removal of any limitation on any such power of an EU institution or body;
(j) the conferring on an EU institution or body of new or extended power to impose sanctions on the United Kingdom;
(k) any amendment of a provision listed in Schedule 1 that removes a requirement that anything should be done unanimously, by consensus or by common accord;
(l) any amendment of Article 31(2) of TEU (decisions relating to common foreign and security policy to which qualified majority voting applies) that removes or amends the provision enabling a member of the Council to oppose the adoption of a decision to be taken by qualified majority voting;
(m) any amendment of any of the provisions specified in subsection (3) that removes or amends the provision enabling a member of the Council, in relation to a draft legislative act, to ensure the suspension of the ordinary legislative procedure.

This indeed, does pose some very interesting questions...

I think the word 'BOOM' is the one springing to my mind.

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RedToothBrush · 10/03/2018 23:26

Jo Maugham QC @JolyonMaugham
So, here's the dirty on @BestForBritain's legal case.
www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-countdown-legal-bid-could-12162235
THREAD
They have a very good team. @JMPSimor is a very classy public law Silk. And the public law team at @dpg_law is first rate. That people of this calibre are involved should give confidence this is a serious exercise. /1
The point in the case has been floating around for a while. It stems from this article by @PEleftheriadis. /2
www.law.ox.ac.uk/business-law-blog/blog/2016/07/new-referendum-constitutional-requirement
And it basically stems from a referendum lock that Eurosceptics (as we them called them) insisted on. Their idea was that we shouldn't give any more powers to "Brussels' (as they called the EU) without a referendum. /3
And they say, as I understand it, that the principle is engaged by the fact that taking back control will involve a "transitional" period (which the Government is badging temporary but I I expect to end up permanent) in which we have less control. /4
And they are asking the Government to confirm that the Referendum lock will be engaged - with the need for a Referendum - before we sign a treaty committing us to a transitional period. And if they don't get that confirmation they will sue. /5
So far so good. There are legal complexities - when are there not - but the case is plenty arguable.
There is, however, a political problem. The Government is planning to repeal the Referendum lock in the Repeal Bill. /6
The brilliant campaigner @Andrew_Adonis is leading the charge against that repeal. And if anyone can preserve the lock, he can. But if he fails, the claim will be based on a defunct Act - and will itself be defunct. /7
So, standing back, the best way to consider this case is this: a win satisfies the first of two preconditions to compelling a second referendum.
(It also meets my requirement for litigation - that it also works as a campaigning tool: waitingfortax.com/2017/11/17/the-lawyer-as-political-actor/). /8
And finally, if it sounds like something you'd like to fund, you can do so here confident that you're putting your money into the hands of good lawyers and good people committed to good governance.www.crowdjustice.com/case/brexitchallenge/ /ENDS

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woman11017 · 10/03/2018 23:31

god I hope so red it all depends on Adonis and the repeal on the referendum lock. toes crossed.

RedToothBrush · 10/03/2018 23:39

I would also argue it depends on what the split between Labour Lords and Jeremy Corbyn is like.

I suspect the LDs would support Labour in blocking / delaying the repeal of the act in the Lords and they have the numbers to do so.

Perhaps this is why Corbyn is suddenly going all Eurosceptic and pulling in Loyalty Demands.

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RedToothBrush · 10/03/2018 23:44

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-ireland-border-latest-people-register-advance-plan-theresa-may-a8248621.html?amp&__twitter_impression=true
Brexit: People crossing Irish border would have to register in advance under plan being studied by Theresa May
Exclusive: Prime Minister praises 'some very good proposals' – but they include 'fast-track movement' clearance or the risk of being 'considered to have entered the state irregularly'

I can not see any potential problems here. No. None what so ever.

facepalm

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RedToothBrush · 10/03/2018 23:49

Oh the court case could also force us into no deal territory in order to avoid the scenario of another referendum too...

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woman11017 · 10/03/2018 23:49

this is why Corbyn is suddenly going all Eurosceptic and pulling in Loyalty Demands
Because he want them to force through the repel bill too? You've got his number as a right customer, and you may well be right.

woman11017 · 10/03/2018 23:51

court case could also force us into no deal territory
I thought the window had passed for another ref or election before next March.

Icantreachthepretzels · 10/03/2018 23:58

What a delicious irony if it was an act brought in by the eurosceptics in order to prevent an imagined EU power grab that allowed the people to retain a bit of control and prevent the eurosceptics own sordid grab for power.

If it turned out that they had hoist themselves on their own petard before they had even begun then I might dance a jig!

Surely the fact that they are desperately and quickly trying to repeal their own work shows them up for the charlatans they are. How can they, with any credibility, pretend to represent the will of the people when they are actively removing the people's right to vote - a vote they gave them in the first place! I really hope Adonis can succeed. And I hope that the opposition (no hope for Corbyn but maybe David Lammy or Chuka Umunna) make as big a stink out of this as possible.

Icantreachthepretzels · 11/03/2018 00:01

I thought the window had passed for another ref or election before next March.

If it turns out that legally they had to give us a second referendum (which -face palm - how could they not already know that?) could they ask for the A50 clock to be stopped? So they have x amount of time to negotiate. Stop the clock - do the referendum - and then either leave right away or stay.

RedToothBrush · 11/03/2018 00:07

It would be difficult to get a referendum in, in the timeframe yes, but politically easy for the eu to grant an a50 extension on the basis of needing a ref to fulfil a constitutional requirement.

Remember they would prefer us not to leave.

That in turn would give the repeal bill more time too. And we wouldn't leave on 29th march. Possibly officially more like that autumn.

In terms of stalling it would ironically be helpful for the government, its far to say. But the brexiteers want us out so there are no more twists and turns that prevent us from leaving.

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Icantreachthepretzels · 11/03/2018 00:37

If it turns out there has to be another referendum would that make the government take a more serious approach to negotiations - as this new ref wouldn't be cake and unicorns it would be hard realities... or would they still carry on as crap as ever and hope that the people really were stupid enough to go along with it?

thecatfromjapan · 11/03/2018 00:46

I think the government have very, very little room with regard to the negotiations, so I don't think they'd be able to change their approach. I'm really interested to hear other people's thoughts on this, though.

What a great question.

I'm wondering how a second referendum would line up. Presumably May and co - and the majority of the Conservatives - would have to line up for Leave.

What would Labour do?

And would there be enough control of the funding issue this time?

I wonder about the whole mechanics of getting people out to vote this time, too. Most elections are won on getting the supporters out. The lists and structures that have been built up by parties might not be there to call on, and there wouldn't be that much time to organise them.

It would be interesting, that's for sure.

RedToothBrush · 11/03/2018 07:32

Another ref would not be leave / remain. It would be deal or no deal perhaps with a third option but I see this as unlikely.

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thecatfromjapan · 11/03/2018 08:52

Ah. How weird. I knew that. But I have to admit that I also completely forgot that. Completely. I think that's a small indication - for me - of the incredible power of wishful thinking! Smile

Would that put a different kind of pressure on negotiations then? I still think the UK government has very little room for manouevre - but would it bring another political pressure into play in a way it hasn't before? The pressure points so far have very much seemed to be those of the riven Conservative Party - but it might open things up beyond the closed rooms - and WhatsApp groups - of the current discussion.

RedToothBrush · 11/03/2018 09:03

How many if you are going to vote against a monumentally shit deal if the alternative is no deal?

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Somerville · 11/03/2018 09:04

That Indoendent exclusive on the border made me feel sick. ANPR, CCTV, pre-registering to cross.
It will blow up the peace process. Absolutely blow it up, instantly.
I am shaking with anger.

woman11017 · 11/03/2018 09:05

6 more resign from Legatum including Shanker Singham; director of economic policy. Cristina Odone, and Danny Kruger have already gone.
In Fail and GF so won't do link.

thecatfromjapan · 11/03/2018 09:06

By the way, my thoughts this morning on that WhatsApp group: don't you think it must have functioned a little like on-line grooming? Or like all the social media groups that we (as parents) are so often warned to caution our children against?

I would have drawn people in with the promise of belonging and a place of identity in troubled times (I'm sure there are quite a few Conservative MPs who feel a little bewildered and overwhelmed at the moment), given them friends and a feeling of security, offered a feeling of community and 'star figures' that they could look up to, admire and follow for advice, and then radicalised, pushed behaviour further than they'd initially have accepted, given a viewpoint that flattened and removed (difficult) complexity (replacing it with extremism), and pushed waverers further and further along.

No wonder someone leaked it.

And how disturbing that a group of supposedly sophisticated adults would put themselves into such a situation without a strong awareness of the dangers. Grin

I think that's how you get 1/3 of a Party going along with the extremist project of about 30.

thecatfromjapan · 11/03/2018 09:08

Yes, Red, that is what I'm wondering. It's not good. Both those options will delight the extremists. (I've decided to start calling the Brexiteer-Right 'extremists'. Because they are.)