Westministenders: Groundhog Day

[RedToothBrush]

Groundhog day is 2nd Feb.

Its also today. And yesterday. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before.

We have all turned into Bill Murray.

That's Brexit in the UK.

The only progress seems to be linguistic gymnastics not policy.

No action has been implemented, we are still on words going nowhere.

Tick tock, tick tock.

I didn't know that about Corbyn BigChoc The GFA was signed in 1998 , so coming up for 20 years , short memories

Nearly all Brits - including me - said no British govt could possibly renege on the GFA

I don't think they have done so deliberately - the Kate Hoeys aside, it's mostly a question of woeful ignorance. In the same way that John Redwood as Welsh Secretary couldn't be arsed to learn the Welsh National Anthem, they can't be bothered to find out what is happening outside the South-East of England. I bet that Theresa May didn't even think of the GFA; she gives no sign of having it on her radar.

I was put off Labour in my uni days (3 unis, mid-1970s - early 1980s) because too many seemed to regard women merely as appendages to The Cause., rather than believing feminism was worthy in itself.

I was reminded of when a US Black Panther leader a little earlier was asked what the position of women was, in the Black Panther organisation.
He replied: " Horizontal"

Yep BigChoc - appendages to The Cause sums it up perfectly. My experience too. I got active in the women's movement around the same time, because I felt that we had to fight and win our own battles, we couldn't rely on Labour to do it for us.

peregrina The Tory right wing hated the GFA, because they - e.g. Norman Tebbit - believed it was giving in to IRA demands, whereas they wanted to wipe them out, not negotiate

So they have the myth that the security forces were on the verge of defeating the IRA
whereas the IRA forced the UK govt to negotiate and go back on most of its "red lines" by hitting the City of London cusing billions in damage

• insurance companies refused to insure against terrorist damage and major financial institutions told the govt they would leave if the violence didn't stop
• the City could have been ended as a major financial centre and that's why the Major govt gave in and Blair continued the process

So many on the right are taking Brexit as their best chance to ditch the GFA and get one over the Irish Republicans

Yes frumpety because thats where politics now is.

An irresponsible blurring of lines and caught in the language of them and us and traitors.

I think May's relationship with Trump is a good example of how where the nuance is and a lack of it is problematic. And why there is a need to be, oh shit theres that word again, transparent about it.

Its not just what you do but the way you do it and how that is presented publically.

I don't think Corbyns done anything that a huge proportion of MPs have done. How many have made paid appearances on Russia Today for example. How many have given access to foreign people of influence under the radar and out of official or even semi official channels which might raise eyebrows. That is the very essence of lobbying.

Being honest about it when questioned about it has to be done. There is much to say he hasn't done that to a sufficient standard tbh.

But then id also make the same accusation against any number of other MPs.

Should they be doing it? Questionable but how do you draw a distinction between a legitimate meeting and one which is highly dubious? Am I comfortable and do I like lobbying? Hell no.

I do think there is a problem here that isn't being properly discussed, but its not about individual cases like Corbyn, but in how all MPs behave.

The whole question of lobbying for companies and billionaire oligarchs is ignored
… except when an oligarch fell out with his stooge and talked of brown paper bags, Cash For Questions

99.9% of the more subtle paying off is never discussed: directorships, sinecures, offshore accounts …
It costs so many 10s of billions and affects peoples daily lives when services are privatised / PFIed because of lobbying

but of course it doesn't matter when the "right sort of people" are buying MPs and while governments

buying whole governments

As someone firmly in the middle of the 25-50 age bracket I don't see anyone coming out covered in glory, so Corbyn talking to the IRA is really not that big a deal. Many of his supporters even see it as a positive example of him looking at both sides of a bitter conflict and reaching across a divide. I am ambivalent on it, but it certainly doesn't keep me awake at night. Not compared to the influence of the extreme right and massive corporations on the Tory Government and the impact they are even now having on our policy and public sector.

I'm over 50, old enough to remember IRA bomb attacks on the mainland and it isn't an issue for me either. I am emphatically not a Corbyn supporter in any way, shape or form, but he has been on the right side of history on a number of issues. Playing whack-a-mole with a determined "terrorist" organisation (scare quotes because which side is labelled as terrorist depends very much on political power) almost never works. Negotiation has a far better success rate. And to negotiate you have to sit down and talk to people.

I didn't know that about Tebbit and the IRA BigChoc. However, with May, I still think that it just wasn't on her radar - she strikes me as a typical southern England Tory lady, into hard work and doing good, but with limited vision and not really a thinker. So totally unsuitable for the job of PM.

I assume though that if the current Govt does renege on the GFA, then the IRA could threaten the City again?

Negotiation has a far better success rate. And to negotiate you have to sit down and talk to people.

Could someone let DD know this ^^

Negotiation and compromise.

Two words lost from the vocabulary of current politics.

Sadly Corbyn also seems to have lost these words too.

He avoids hot potatoes which aren't his pet projects.

No politician has got the guts to do 'difficult'.

Ironically this was Corbyn was held up as having integrity in the first place.

Have these been posted? (Nicking your OP too, again, I see red)

Power sharing , now there's a phrase , I have often wondered that the things we insist children do to be seen as good little citizens , seem to fly out of the window once they reach adulthood

Rigged referendum... seriously.

More on the Agent Corbyn story. Is it any wonder his supporters no longer react to these stories about him? They are generally based on nothing and when the detail comes out it turns out to not be nearly as exciting. Corbyn met someone he believed was a diplomat, but unknown to him was a spy. No recruitment took place. No story.

“Mr. Corbyn was neither registered [by the StB] as a collaborator, nor does this [his alleged collaboration] stem from archive documents,” Ptacnikova said.

The Czech archive keepers have found signs that the StB tried to prevent Corbyn from discovering the real identity of the Czechoslovak official he was meeting, Ptacnikova said.

Jan Dymic was a cover name, she said, which was not unusual, adding that intelligence officers officially worked at Czechoslovak diplomatic and trade missions abroad. It is believed that Dymic was actually Ján Sarkocy, the third secretary of the Czechoslovak foreign ministry, in charge of “peace movement.”

He was probably meeting Corbyn in his capacity as a diplomat, Ptáčníková told ČTK. He was expelled from Britain in 1989.

Jeremy Corbyn never knowingly met communist spy, says Czech agency
www.politico.eu/article/jeremy-corbyn-never-knowingly-met-communist-spy-says-czech-agency/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

So present the Government with a problem , the GFA and Brexit , what does the Government do ? does it put time and effort into trying to find a solution , nope it discredits the very thing that has brought relative peace for nearly 20 years , do they honestly think we are that stupid ?

'Groundhogging' is the strategy, though. If they can get to October, they've got their crash out.

Layoffs Arrive in Brexit Britain, and Auto Workers Are Up First

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-16/layoffs-arrive-in-brexit-britain-and-auto-workers-are-up-first

Being split off from their biggest market means the job cuts and production slowdown U.K. carmakers have imposed the past few months could be just a prelude to wholesale shutdowns.
…
Tariffs and other hurdles to trade could be disastrous for the automotive industry
since parts routinely move across borders several times during the manufacturing process.

Take the BMW Mini, manufactured in Oxford.
Before reaching the production line,
each engine crankshaft is made in France,
shipped to BMW’s U.K. engine plant in Hams Hall near Birmingham
and then to Steyr, Austria for assembly.

The cost of assembling a car in the UK could increase by £2,372 ($3,337) under a scenario where a 10 percent tariff is imposed, according to estimates of London-based PA Consulting

europe.autonews.com/article/20180217/ANE/180219781?template=mobile02&X-IgnoreUserAgent=1

The Uk govt is making very little practical prepping for Brexit

• just concentrating on rhetoric to reassure Leavers that their vote didn't screw the pooch

However, other govts are starting serious prep - for a Brexit without cake

e.g. the Netherlands are hiring & training 1,000 new customs staff:
https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2018/02/16/douane-zoekt-bijna-duizend-nieuwe-beambten-vanwege-brexit-a1592524

If such investment continues, the E27 also gets tied in more to the UK govt Brexit version of leaving the Single Market and Customs Union

btw, the existing Dutch Customs staff number only about 4,600
So it is proportionately a huge increase, that can only be to cope with Brexit

They can't wait any longer for the UK to decide on a feasible policy - it is already very late to train people in time
Their timescale is to be ready in case there is no transition, i.e. by 30 March 2019
imo, there would be 1,000 half-trained staff, so this is another example of why the E27 want the transition too, not just the UK

"just concentrating on rhetoric to reassure Leavers that their vote didn't screw the pooch"

Yep, in idiocracy idiot control is absolutely critical.

Im close to 40, and was caught up in two thankfully defused IRA bomb attempts and a few scares back in the day on visits to London. When I'd return to my home town I'd have weeks of being told it was a shame try didn't kill me as I was Irish (dual didn't count, having some Irish was enough). It didn't endear me with sympathy with the IRA, but it did give me an insight into how mainlanders viewed those from the island of Ireland. It's also what makes me lack in patriotism.

The current terrorism we're encountering at the moment though, whether isis related/inspired or right wing is a whole different animal. It's more singular without any real defined aim. Or at last have quite differing aims. Makes it seem folly not to have attempted negotiating with those with defined leadership and aims with hindsight.

According to fact check Corbyn didn't oppose the gfa, he opposed the prior Anglo Irish agreement from 1985 on the basis it strengthened rather than weakened the border. I was looking to check about him meeting sinn Fein rather than the IRA (I know I know, but when talking about younger people who can't remember the struggles there is a disconnect here) which in the main it appeared to be.

This turned into an essay. Oops.