Westministenders: Groundhog Day

[RedToothBrush]

Groundhog day is 2nd Feb.

Its also today. And yesterday. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before.

We have all turned into Bill Murray.

That's Brexit in the UK.

The only progress seems to be linguistic gymnastics not policy.

No action has been implemented, we are still on words going nowhere.

Tick tock, tick tock.

I'm increasingly agreeing with that view lonely 😔😔😔

Lonelyplanetmum - I meant to use the word hubris in my post, as I agree, it is a large part of the problem. Interesting about the next two stages - I've learnt something and I think you are right. The English do need to go through that process . Otherwise it is a poison that will continue to have its venal effect on English society.

I'm hoping, for the people of England's sake, that if Scotland succeeds in gaining our independence and rejoining the EU relatively quickly, then the contrast in our fortunes with the ongoing car crash in England will make it more difficult for the rabid anti-EU contingent to blame the EU - thereby accelerating the time it will take for the majority in England to see the light.

Sorting out paperwork for mine and the kids Irish passports today

That it's come to this....
😔

I've signed passport photos to help a family at school all get their Irish and EU passports.

And the nemesis for me in that is that I know that both those parents voted enthusiastically for Brexit.

And I discovered that my 'Irish' grandparent was actually born in Yorkshire.His parents moved when his Mother my great grandma was pregnant.So I can't get an Irish pp.

That's the irony in all -this we all have to experience the imminent nemesis decades, despite not being part of the hubris contingent.

I'm hoping, for the people of England's sake, that if Scotland succeeds in gaining our independence and rejoining the EU relatively quickly

Apparently NIcola Sturgeon was very moving on TV this morning?

There's going to be a thriving market in black-market EU passports, and 'arranged' partnerships, over the next wee while. EU passport will be more valuable than an over priced english degree.

.....and another

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43199979

Oh correction apparently Nicola Sturgeon was on Radio 4 not tv.
Available later on iplayer.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p035cph1

My anger towards leavers is not dissipating
I'm angrier now than I've ever been

Fuckers

Mrs R funny you should say that I've been feeling defeated and resigned to the Hubris stage. Then walking back from the school run, I thought I need to get my anger back!

Sorry I meant resigned to the post hubris stage.

lonely you're a better person than I am - I don't think I could've brought myself to sign their passports

I find if I think about it all nationally, politically, economically I just feel defeated especially after Corbyn's speech yesterday.

If I think about it personally then I can summon up a bit more fight.The following people I know make me seethe although I don't say anything to them, apart from to FIL:

•The school Mum and Dad I know who proactively campaigned and leafleted for Brexit. The family is Anglo Australian and at the end of this school year are ...relocating to Oz. She actually said there's no future for my kids in this country. Well thanks for voting, winning and leaving us to it - thanks for that.

• F in law - always makes me angry. He thinks ' they' want to take us over, yet perfectly happy for Tories to trash the NHS and enact laws without debate or process. Loves and trusts the US and Trump.

• Another school family. Very anti any forriners living and working here. Very pro Brexit. The Dad has got a job at a higher tax free salary in Dubai so they're off to be forriners elsewhere with lots of comments about their new lifestyle and opportunities for kids in international schools etc.

• A friend's Mum -hates the EU and foreigners, blames the EU for all terrorism. Yet she professes to be Christian and has a mixed race adopted granddaughter.

• The family I referred to earlier. Of Irish descent -have houses in London and Ireland. Pro Brexit. Yet recently got me to counter sign their Irish passport applications. And I'm not entitled to one due to grandfather leaving Ireland in utero.

Still feel defeated and resigned to the nemesis stage though.

Piece on Woman's Hour at the moment about the Yarl's Wiid strikers.

lonely - I would have told those Leavers to have ducked right off. I felt angry just reading that

Pain she's actually a really good friend. Our kids get on well and she's really entertaining and witty. We just can't discuss the EU.

Fucked the - autocorrect doesn't approve of my potty mouth .

That's Prettybird and Peregrina in agreement, and I've been increasingly resigned to it too.
Sadly it's an increasing Remain stance now.

It doesn't mean I shan't fight it until the last!

Hope this link from this mornings R4 Today programme works:

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05zhp9q

...Sir Martin Donnelly, formerly the most senior civil servant in Dr Fox's department, said that ending customs union arrangements would be so damaging, the UK would have to ask to rejoin the single market.

We are obviously still very much in the hubris phase, certainly judging by the unicorn-based gloating on the other current thread, where it's still all about us assuming our rightful elevated place on the global stage while we gleefully stick up two fingers to the EU.

I think it's very dangerous for this idea of resignation to become an accepted stance. All the points which have been made here and elsewhere over the past 2 years still apply, whether it's the Irish border, the economic impact of leaving, the demonisation of foreigners (particularly Yoorop) and so many other factors. Do we really want to see things we hold dear destroyed simply as a cathartic spasm?

I understand the idea of nemesis being the only way finally to open people's eyes and shut up the right-wing loonies for good, but I think this a) underestimates the capacity of people for finding others to blame and b) threatens to destroy so much for such a long time to come. What was it that was said about the Roman empire? They make a desert and call it peace. That's what I fear will happen if we just give up and it will take more than one generation to clear up the mess.

So I can't simply shrug my shoulders and say let them get on with it, that they need to be confronted with the evidence of their own idiocy. The damage will be so widespread and above all long-lasting that it's far too serious to be acceptable, just so leavers will finally be confronted with the evidence of their own stupidity in the aftermath. We have to continue fighting against the darkness.

My wife is German and my sons can get dual nationality by descent, so we would theoretically have a way out, but I'm damned if I'll just give up and let ignorance prevail. I love my country, despite its manifest shortcomings, and I can't stand to see it destroyed, or at least hugely dimninished, simply by letting the forces of blind and wilful ignorance win.

This was a good analogy (and also made me hungry so am currently munching on a packer of ready salted)

Leaving the single market/customs union was like up a three course meal for a promise of a packet of crisps in the future".

I now have a mental image of Fox with his fingers in his ears chanting “la la la I’m not listening”.

Well said hasenstein.

katya adler‏
@BBCkatyaadler
“Don’t leave Brussels tomorrow. You’re going to be busy” EU diplomat tells me as bloc prepares to release draft legal text on UK divorce bill #Brexit 1
Text likely to expose square peg, round hole aspect of how it will be possible to avoid a hard border between NIreland and Irish Republic if UK wants to leave customs union and single market and if DUP ctns to insist on no different deal for NIreland from rest of UK 2
Not only Ireland demanding more clarity on this issue than the ‘fudge’ achieved in talks before Christmas. Now Germany and particularly France want to pin UK down on details 3
EU says its concern is protecting the Good Friday agreement. EU countries still united over giving Ireland a veto on this issue #Brexit 4
NB The text the Commission is preparing to release is a DRAFT legal text on the U.K. divorce bill. It will then be negotiated between the two sides 5
EU countries hope with release of the text, it will pressurize UK gov to provide more clarity on what specific relationship it wants with EU after #Brexit 6
Brussels realises ensuring plans as loose as possible helps Theresa May keep her government together but Ireland says needs more detail to protect Good Friday agreement; other EU countries under pressure from business to know what lies ahead 7

[why are they trying to keep the government together? It's hardly as though the current lot are fonts of stability or pragmatism]]

Yet the Mail didn't think Corbyn was wishy-washy - it was full on Betrays Brexit. As with our Brexit Arms friends - a CU and SM deal isn't what the handful who post there want. But then in the next breath, they are bored.

This would be encouraging, if it weren't for the fact that it would inevitably be taken as a sign of support for Brexit, by the Labour front bench no less

Sam Coates Times
‏*@SamCoatesTimes*
Exc: Labour MPs are micro targeting EU nationals to ask them for their vote in the local election. EU nationals can’t vote in general elections and referendums but there are 1.1 million in London when every council there is up..