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Brexit

Westministenders: Groundhog Day

994 replies

RedToothBrush · 14/02/2018 16:20

Groundhog day is 2nd Feb.

Its also today. And yesterday. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before.

We have all turned into Bill Murray.

That's Brexit in the UK.

The only progress seems to be linguistic gymnastics not policy.

No action has been implemented, we are still on words going nowhere.

Tick tock, tick tock.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
47
TheElementsSong · 26/02/2018 16:41

Seconding DG's new proposed unit of Brexit measurement Grin

borntobequiet · 26/02/2018 18:21

In the spirit that saw scientific units named after prominent scientists...
A Gove- a bewildering amount of something.
A Bojo- a sickening amount of something.
A May - a frankly unbelievable amount of something.

SwedishEdith · 26/02/2018 18:41

A Davis - a wafty, hand-waving amount of anything.

frumpety · 26/02/2018 19:12

One of Yarls Wood women said she had lived in the UK for 24 years and felt like she had been kidnapped Sad

prettybird · 26/02/2018 19:15

I get irrationally angry when I see DD on TV. Angry

He just looks so insolent (actually autocorrect tried to change that to indolent which would apply too Wink) all the time. Or bored Hmm Or thinking it is all a big joke Hmm

Come to think of it, it's not irrational to be angry at his apparent attitude Hmm It is a perfectly normal reaction when observing someone who is supposed to be working hard for the best possible (and achievable) deal on all of ours behalf, who should be taking his work seriously and professionally Angry

BigChocFrenzy · 26/02/2018 19:30

24 years, frumpety She's made her life here.Sad
What does she have to go back to, in her "own" country, even if it's not a war-zone, or a religious hell-hole.

I know ordinary Leavers wanted to change Britain,
but the only changes I see are that the govt - and others in positions of power over people - have taken the Referendum result as a licence to be cruel.
Is that really what Leavers wanted, or is it just acceptable collateral damage, or maybe they don't pay attention unless the Heil prints it ?

BigChocFrenzy · 26/02/2018 19:43

Ironic that this spy smear against Corbyn came not long before old Foreign Office papers revealed a Torygraph reporter admitted espionage for the USSR.

Many communist spies were part of the rightwing or aristocratic establishment
No loyalty to the rest of us, just arrogance

If the rightwing press want to dig up ancient spy stories, they should first peer into their own cess-pit

Unmasked: the Daily Telegraph reporter David ‘Pink’ Floyd who spied for Moscow

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/unmasked-the-daily-telegraph-reporter-david-pink-floyd-who-spied-for-moscow-gv9mqp0vt

SwedishEdith · 26/02/2018 19:50

I get rationally angry at DD, prettybird, for the same reasons.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 26/02/2018 19:53

Remind me, what would brexit do to regulations?

Russian millions laundered via UK firms, leaked report says

Denmark’s biggest bank believes cash was funnelled through British companies by people linked to Vladimir Putin’s family and the FSB spy agency

amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/26/russian-millions-laundered-via-uk-firms-leaked-report-says?CMP=share_btn_tw&__twitter_impression=true

The revelations again highlight the use of the lightly regulated British corporate landscape to move large sums of money around, beyond the purview of regulators and tax authorities. In this case the beneficiaries appear to have been figures with Kremlin connections.

BigChocFrenzy · 26/02/2018 19:58

The rightwing Ultras and their wealthy backers want to crash the UK to loot it
There is also a strong xenophobic and anti-immigrant section of Leavers

imo - and I'm certainly no Corbyn fan - he is totally different in that he is motivated by idealism, not profit
He is also internationalist and doesn't seem to have an inherent hatred of immigration, like May does, but wants reform to protect the Uk's unskilled workers.

Starmer has moved him quite a distance to his current position on trade and it looks like he is on a continuing journey to a much softer Brexit than the current govt would ever propose

BigChocFrenzy · 26/02/2018 19:59

Unfortunately, he still believes - or has to appear to believe - in unicorns, but more from naivety, not nationalist arrogance

woman11017 · 26/02/2018 20:07

frumpety and bcf no msm news on it, but there's this:
thedebrief.co.uk/news/politics/yarls-wood-hunger-strike-detained-voices/

The women work and are paid £1 a day. Practices are in breach of ECHR article 8.

That lady you referred to frumpety came as an 11 year old to this country and has been here for 24 years. Women who came as children are being held..

@detainedvoices
YARL’S WOOD STRIKE UPDATE: there are currently 18 people staging a peaceful sit in protest outside the home office department in yarls wood, some have been prevented from the sit in by a prison lock down x #yarlswood #HungryforFreedom

@detainedvoices
a home office official just walked past us and asked if we are having a party, the home office workers know we are on a hunger strike but they keep walking past with their lunches #HungerForFreedom #Yarlswood

mathanxiety · 26/02/2018 21:06

Having a sense of deja vu wrt the hunger strike at the detention centre. I can well believe the tales of 'irregularity', and legal murkiness is par for the course too. Iirc, there were appeals to the ECHR over the treatment of NI prisoners.

Feeling disappointed that Labour has caught such a bad case of the Brexit insanity. Though I am not sure what I expected. I think the only alternative to a Brexit platform is the LibDems now, and I can see the SNP girding for another indyref. ( If they're not preparing for one, they should be).

woman11017 · 26/02/2018 21:40

@faisalislam
Hearing from multiple sources that the EU27 Northern Ireland draft legal text of the Phase 1 agreement to be released on Wednesday is going to be rather difficult for the PM... PM & Taoiseach spoke tonight say Dublin:

@faisalislam
UK sources stressing that its only a draft... but the “backstop” NI option will now be worked through in a full legal form in wednesday’s document - some sources saying longer than the supposed first choice options

@simoncoveney
Very good meeting with @MichelBarnier today, focusing on #Brexit legal text of draft Withdrawal Agreement to be published on Wednesday - we are of the one mind, translating the political commitments of December…

@faisalislam
All this against a backdrop of the Opposition here coming up explicitly with what it says is a solution to the commitments made on the Ireland border in the phase 1 agreement - ie a new customs union...

Timing is all.

Desperatelyseekingsun · 26/02/2018 21:56

Math I think not having the numbers for an early 2nd ref NS might as well wait until the impact of Brexit becomes clearer and try for a ref then. I can only see the Indy cause getting stronger with time and I say this as a Scot who has been happy to be British up until now. (English DH is clinging to hope that his Scottish DW might yet be DC's path back to EU.)

BigChocFrenzy · 26/02/2018 22:36

Woman Dreadful that someone who came aged 11 to the UK would now be deported aged 35

Imagine any 35-year old in the country, suddenly being deported to a totally strange country
We see threads from British women stressing about going to a new country with spouse, relatives, new job
Now imagine going without any family or job, few savings, where you don't know anyone - maybe can't even speak the language properly - to a country your parents fled from.

BigChocFrenzy · 26/02/2018 22:44

After the unenthusiastic reaction from voters when NS first proposed a 2nd IndyRef, I'd expect the SNP to wait until after Brexit has happened; in the meantime, to keep warning of what Brexit will do to Scotland.

If Brexit becomes a car crash, like RNorth's nightmare predictions of empty shelves and no food exports to the EU for 6-12 months,
then the Conservative & Unionist Party will have succeeded in breaking up the UK.

BigChocFrenzy · 26/02/2018 22:56

Horrifying sectarianism and hate speech Angry
Does May give a damn who she allies with and gives bungs to ?

Quotes from Sammy Wilson, the noisy DUP MP and NI MLA:

https://en.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/Sammy_Wilson

“Leadbelly”
. A comment about fellow Belfast councillor Alex Maskey after he was shot in the stomach by loyalist paramilitaries

“Our message to the perverts who voted for them [Sinn Féin] is that they will not get anything through this council.”

“Would this council be prepared to congratulate all those who have done a good job on two sides of the border?”
. Reference to the loyalist murder of Sinn Féin Donegal councillor Eddie Fullerton

“5,000 subhuman animals”
. About voters who re-elected Joe Austin of Sinn Féin

“They are poofs. I don't care if they are ratepayers. As far as I am concerned they are perverts.”
. After gay rights activists had requested the use of City Hall

“Taigs don't pay rates”
. Irish Times (Jan 12, 2000)

BigChocFrenzy · 26/02/2018 23:00

Surprisingly generous Editorial
The Guardian view on Labour’s custom union plan: realistic and smart

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/26/the-guardian-view-on-labours-custom-union-plan-realistic-and-smart

BigChocFrenzy · 26/02/2018 23:14

Are May and Corbyn looking at such voting analyses ?

James Kanagasooriam@JamesKanag
Fascinating data from @BESResearch shows that at the 2017 election Tory remainers were still a bigger political force than Labour leavers. Food for thought.

Westministenders: Groundhog Day
prettybird · 26/02/2018 23:17

Re a second indyref, I have to admit to today musing while driving home (listening to the commentary on Corbyn's variant on cake philosophy) that maybe the UK does need to go through the pain of Brexit. Shock

Maybe that's the only way to kill off the anti-EU gremlins and the Luddites who still think that the UK England has an Empire and is "special" and should be treated by the rest of the world as such Hmm. Once disaster reality hits, maybe finally the UK England will learn a bit of humility and start to treat other countries with proper respect.

In the process, Scotland might I hope achieve its independence. So the Brexiters, far from presiding over the re-establishment of the British Empire the UK as a world superpower, will have been responsible for breaking up the UK.

Unfortunately, there is a massive probability risk of collateral damage - and it is the most vulnerable who will be hardest hit Sad while the bastards driving this will make fortunes Angry

Peregrina · 26/02/2018 23:59

that maybe the UK does need to go through the pain of Brexit.

I agree, if a 'soft Brexit' is delivered it still won't shut up Johnson, Gove, Fox, Redwood, Lilley, and the others. If we get a hard Brexit and we have to have food rationing or troops on the streets, and these mysterious trade deals which were supposed to be stitched up in an afternoon, are no where to be seen, then they will be seen to have had their chance and failed. Except they won't take the blame - it will be everyone else's fault, and Rees-Smug for one will be able to distance himself, because he's never held office.

I too think the break up of the UK is a distinct possibility - starting with a United Ireland. Don't forget the current United Kingdom isn't 100 years old yet, so it's not as though something 100's of years old is being broken up.

Kofa · 27/02/2018 06:49

Organ donatuon is another area that i haven't seen mentioned anywhere yet and will be affected by Brexit. There is currently am EU organ exchange scheme and there are EU standards which ensre that domated organs are safe and of high quality. This was to not only.increase the pool of organs available but also.to improve matching donor with recipient thus decreasing risk of organ rejection etc. I am only aware of this as I lost someone very close to me who was living in Ireland. Her kidneys went to London and her liver to Manchester.

lonelyplanetmum · 27/02/2018 06:53

that maybe the UK does need to go through the pain of Brexit...Once disaster reality hits, maybe finally the UK England will learn a bit of humility and start to treat other countries with proper respect.

That's Prettybird and Peregrina in agreement, and I've been increasingly resigned to it too.

Sadly it's an increasing Remain stance now.
The 'we won / you lost' contingent have succeeded. The EU xenophobic cabal have simply ingrained their stance, but sadly many of the more reasonable 48% seem defeated. In some cases hope is reduced to clutching at the non plastic straw of any form of a customs union. Others are moving towards accepting the full pain of isolation plus sacrifice to the right wing's power grab and erosion of previous due parliamentary process.

I don't know if anyone remembers the discussion in the early threads about hubris? Saying sheer hubris was a significant root cause of this debacle.

Despite not being classically educated, I predicted that based on Greek tragedy, after hubris comes nemesis then catharsis.

It's like we do have to go through the nemesis (which will be international isolation, economic pain, more austerity, an NHS in name only, greater society divisions, restricted and far more expensive mobility, limited and expensive food choice , American approved pharmaceuticals etc etc. )

Then decades beyond that there may be catharsis, a humble, grateful rejoining of an evolved EU which will cost us more, but with the trade, peace and protection benefits that brings.

lonelyplanetmum · 27/02/2018 06:55

Sorry Kofa, I cross posted and sorry you lost some-one close.

Organ donation is an interesting point.

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