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Brexit

Westministenders: Groundhog Day

994 replies

RedToothBrush · 14/02/2018 16:20

Groundhog day is 2nd Feb.

Its also today. And yesterday. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before.

We have all turned into Bill Murray.

That's Brexit in the UK.

The only progress seems to be linguistic gymnastics not policy.

No action has been implemented, we are still on words going nowhere.

Tick tock, tick tock.

OP posts:
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47
lonelyplanetmum · 26/02/2018 10:16

Advance extract from Corbyn's Brexit speech..

Labour released some extracts from Jeremy Corbyn’s speech overnight.

The European Union is not the root of all our problems and leaving it will not solve all our problems. Likewise, the EU is not the source of all enlightenment and leaving it does not inevitably spell doom for our country. [ Nice support for the Gov there]

There will be some who will tell you that Brexit is a disaster for this country and some who will tell you that Brexit will create a land of milk and honey. The truth is more down to earth and it’s in our hands: Brexit is what we make of it together.

Our message has been consistent since the vote to leave 20 months ago. We respect the result of the referendum. Our priority is to get the best deal for people’s jobs, living standards and the economy. We reject any race to the bottom in workers’ rights, environmental safeguards, consumer protections, or food safety standards.

And we’ve pushed the Government to act to guarantee the rights of EU citizens living here and of UK citizens who have made their homes elsewhere in Europe; to ensure a transition period on the existing terms to minimise disruption and avoid an economic cliff edge; to avoid any return to a hard border in Northern Ireland; and to guarantee Parliament a meaningful vote on the final deal.

Every country that is geographically close to the EU without being an EU member state, whether it’s Turkey, Switzerland, or Norway, has some sort of close relationship to the EU, some more advantageous than others.

Britain will need a bespoke relationship of its own. Labour would negotiate a new and strong relationship with the single market that includes full tariff-free access and a floor under existing rights, standards and protections.

That new relationship would need to ensure we can deliver our ambitious economic programme, take the essential steps to upgrade and transform our economy, and build an economy for the 21st century that works for the many, not the few.

So we would also seek to negotiate protections, clarifications or exemptions, where necessary, in relation to privatisation and public service competition directives, state aid and procurement rules and the posted workers directive.

We cannot be held back, inside or outside the EU, from taking the steps we need to support cutting edge industries and local business, stop the tide of privatisation and outsourcing or prevent employers being able to import cheap agency labour from abroad to undercut existing pay and conditions.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 26/02/2018 10:22

So now it's "with" the single market and not "in" or "out"?

And I thought getting protections, clarifications or exemptions, [...] in relation to privatisation and public service competition directives, state aid and procurement rules and the posted workers directive were all possible in the EU anyway? (though it is entirely possible I've got that wrong)

DGRossetti · 26/02/2018 10:26

Sorry Jezza, but it's hard not to feel underwhelmed.

I can't see the Labour party in my future.

DGRossetti · 26/02/2018 10:29

However, addressing one of the housing issues domestically, it looks like good old anti-discrimination legislation might (hopefully) send a chill down the spines of landlords ... or (as it should) the letting agents who advise them ????

I'm pretty certain the few times a landlord has ventured onto MN an defended a "No benefits" tenancy, they've wailed it was on the advice of their letting agent.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-42979242

The thousands of lettings agents and landlords around the country who reject housing benefit claimants could be flouting equality laws, due a recent legal case.

The widespread practice has led to "no-go zones" for those on lower incomes - especially in desirable residential areas.

But single mother Rosie Keogh won compensation for sex discrimination from a lettings agency that refused to consider her as a tenant because she was on state benefit.

The cleaner and former paralegal successfully argued that blanket bans on benefit claimants indirectly discriminated against women, especially single women.

^This is because they are proportionately more likely to be claiming housing benefit than single men, according to official figures.
Rosie's attempt to rent a property in a smart area of Birmingham in May 2016 was blocked when the lettings agent found she would pay some of the rent via housing benefit.^

(contd).

lonelyplanetmum · 26/02/2018 10:34

Questions I'd like the journalists there to ask...

• What about services? [80% of our economy and not part of the current customs union or any likely bespoke arrangement ]

• Why are you still endorsing supporting Johnson, Rees Mogg etc by banging on about how you would redirect our great EU budget saving ? It's only 1 % of GDP for heavens sake. [If he does say that.]

DGRossetti · 26/02/2018 10:39

Meanwhile, for a post-Brexit clue, let's look (briefly) at the US.

www.theregister.co.uk/2018/02/26/h_1b_visa_reform_policy_published/

The United States Department of Homeland Security's Citizenship and Immigration Services has released new and strict rules for H-1B visas, the permit used by many-a-tech-company to bring skilled workers to the USA from abroad.

President Donald Trump campaigned on a promise to restrict use of the visas, which he claimed are used to import workers who are paid less than locals and therefore make it harder for US citizens to get a job. Trump was also uncomfortable with outsourcers' use of the visa, saying they displaced American workers. Labour hire agencies also sought the visa, bringing in people and then finding them jobs after they arrived.

The USA's recently cracked down on employers who use the visa, with more inspections to make sure they're not being abused.

Now a new Policy Memorandum (PDF), released late last week, revealed the Trump Administration's plans to make H-1B visas harder to obtain by requiring extensive documentation about exactly what workers will do, why they're needed and where they will work.

(contd).

Makes you wonder what the Farage vision of post Brexit skills visas would be ????

Peregrina · 26/02/2018 11:43

I see the Mail is screaming about Corbyn betraying Brexit, yet he hasn't said he's against it.

DGRossetti · 26/02/2018 11:45

I see the Mail is screaming about Corbyn betraying Brexit, yet he hasn't said he's against it.

Whereas, in response to elsewhere, there' not a whiff off anyone talking about Brexit not in English. Any talk of the UK currently is focussed on the terrible news from Leicester Sad.

ElenaGreco123 · 26/02/2018 12:06

Makes you wonder what the Farage vision of post Brexit skills visas would be????

Farage does not really "do" policy / vision. His take would be "Does it effect me or any of my chums? If not, who cares."

BigChocFrenzy · 26/02/2018 12:13

It's not directly on topic, but I was reading this and thinking of those Leavers who hope Brexit will clear the way to capital punishment

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/26/gory-botched-alabamas-aborted-execution-of-inmate-was-bloody-says-lawyer

An execution in the US was aborted last week after the inmate was left with 10 puncture wounds when medical personnel were unable to find a vein after two and a half hours of trying.
< so much for a quick painless end >
^
The failed attempts left behind a bloodied death chamber, the inmate’s lawyer said.

On Thursday, Alabama tried to execute by lethal injection convicted murderer Doyle Hamm, 61, who has spent more than half his life on death row.^
^After about two and a half hours of trying, the state called the execution off because issues with Hamm’s veins could not be resolved before a death warrant expired at midnight.
^
“It was a gory, botched execution.
They gave up when they could not find a vein,”

< I'm sure they'll try again, after his wounds have healed. Tame doctors will advise how to find elusive veins >

LadyLance · 26/02/2018 12:14

Jeremy Corbyn was promising things he could never deliver in negotiations with the EU- in "a" customs union, with a say on trade deals and no freedom of movement. It's never going to happen. I'm not convinced it would address the Irish issue either.

I think he can see some form of trade relationship with Europe us essential and he wouldn't want us to crash out with no deal. However, he's fundamentally opposed to the EU competition rules, so I don't think he could reach a workable agreement.

I am glad he made the speech, as at least he has a coherent policy on Europe now, and might actually oppose the government on some issues. Kier Starmer was singing from the same hymn sheet on the BBC news as well. So if he's united the party, then things will look worse for Teresa May.

Ultimately Jeremy Corbyn is living in fantasy land, but at least he is acknowledging the issues brexit will cause for trade and NI.

DGRossetti · 26/02/2018 12:32

“It was a gory, botched execution."

They could have done a better job with an ax.

nationalpost.com/news/world/they-could-have-done-a-better-job-with-an-ax-thomas-edison-the-electric-chair-and-a-botched-execution

On the totally off topic end of the scale, there are resources available for people wanting to build their own guillotine.

Before we get too carried away about being civilised, it's worth reflecting that London Underground ran an "execution special" tube service in 1868 ...

londonist.com/london/undergroundtoapublichanging

Personally I think the best way to ensure capital punishment stays in the history books is to remind people of the history, with a rather cynical modernist twist.

Maybe an activist campaign to encourage big companies to sponsor an execution ? If we manage to off enough crims, could we perhaps have a C21st tribute to Strange Fruit and hang a nonce of each pod of the London Eye, as it slowly turns ? Visitors could watch a multimedia presentation below which changes as each corpse reaches it's perigee.

woman11017 · 26/02/2018 13:03

120 000 or more have had their lives cut short.

The women detainees on hunger strike at Yarls Wood may well be next.

Capital punishment is already up and running.

Shoah camps' death rates were not advertised at the time either.

WhatwouldLyndaSnelldo · 26/02/2018 13:13

I don't understand what JC is proposing. In short, are Labour moving closer to stopping Brexit?

DGRossetti · 26/02/2018 14:48

I don't understand what JC is proposing. In short, are Labour moving closer to stopping Brexit?

He's proposing BBAN

Brexit By Another Name.

GlassOfPort · 26/02/2018 14:49

I don't think they are

They may be willing to vote alongside the Tory rebels for continued membership of a/the CU...which I suppose is better than a kick in the teeth

(MN should really create an "underwhelemed-by-Labour's-Brexit-policy" emoticon..)

prettybird · 26/02/2018 14:54

Glassofport - I think that's Hmm Or is it Confused? Wink

TheElementsSong · 26/02/2018 14:58

I don't understand what JC is proposing. In short, are Labour moving closer to stopping Brexit?

As far as I can tell, he's proposing undeliverable cake, but it will be better flavoured undeliverable cake than the Tories' undeliverable cake, because it will be Labour's undeliverable cake.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 26/02/2018 15:01

Robert Peston
@Peston
And @jeremycorbyn tells me if government loses parliamentary vote on whatever Brexit deal it may negotiate, it should either go back to Brussels and negotiate a new deal, or call a general election - rather than put its deal to another referendum

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 26/02/2018 15:04

Ie not have “Remain” as an option

DGRossetti · 26/02/2018 15:05

if government loses parliamentary vote on whatever Brexit deal it may negotiate, it should either go back to Brussels and negotiate a new deal, or call a general election - rather than put its deal to another referendum

But as things stand (?) that's pretty much do you want your left leg, or your right leg amputated ?

WhatwouldLyndaSnelldo · 26/02/2018 15:35

Thanks for replies. I got quite excited over the weekend thinking Labour might actually be growing a backbone. I've cancelled the direct debit for my membership.

I'm considering self-identifying as the PM and withdrawing A50 myself.

LadyLance · 26/02/2018 15:45

WhatwouldLyndaSnelldo The one thing I will say in Jeremy Corbyn's favour is he seems to have woken up to some of the problems Brexit will create (e.g. NI border, issues with manufacturing), whereas elements of the Tory party seem to be denying this still. Or, perhaps, in the case of NI, they just don't care. Hopefully, this will help him become a better opposition leader, as now he will actually oppose things, rather than fence sitting.

The problem is the solution he is proposing- "A" customs union with close ties to the single market but no freedom of movement and ignoring EU laws on competition and a veto/vote on EU legislation that would affect us- is never going to happen. If it could happen, then I think everyone in the UK would accept it as a compromise solution, but the EU27 will never allow it.

I also can't see how it would be possible to have a frictionless border in NI and controls on immigration.

I'm sure you'd do a much better job as PM though!

DGRossetti · 26/02/2018 16:07

Just noticed a thread about dental work in Hungary (seems highly recommended).

I imagine the Brexit Arms brigade will just tell us that there will be a magic of UK dentists after Brexit

(can I interrupt myself and propose "a magic" be adopted to indicate any quantity of anything post-Brexit. We'll get "a magic" of money back, regions will get "a magic" of money investment and so on)

however, it's just one small example of how the ability to move around within the EU is taken for granted. Post Brexit, quite aside from any travel restrictions, you might have the possibility of tariffs or taxes that would make such ventures unviable. And, frankly, I can't see UK prices coming down in response.

DGRossetti · 26/02/2018 16:31

Speaking of EASA, as some were, it seems they are working towards a very locked-down approach to drone safety.

www.easa.europa.eu/document-library/opinions/opinion-012018

Without burrowing into the details, my first thought is that in or out of the EU, and regardless of our membership of EASA, if the UK doesn't like these proposed regulations, it won't be enjoying visits from EASA covered countries - or if it does the insurance will be higher ....