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Westminstenders: Blue Passports

980 replies

RedToothBrush · 22/12/2017 14:57

Yay for the blue passports.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you all

May next year bring us £350 million for the NHS, cake, unicorns, financial passporting, access to the single market, Irish love and of course control to the people.

(Apologies been up to my eyeballs. Normal service will resume after Christmas).

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BigChocFrenzy · 02/01/2018 10:41

Fintan O'Toole (Irish Times) nailed it some time ago:

“A once-mighty state has been unable to provide convincing answers to two of the most basic questions in any negotiations:
who’s in charge, and what do you want?”

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 02/01/2018 10:43

Nige still twatting on

Farage-backed 'Irexit' conference branded a 'sham' promoting 'incorrect information'

www.independent.ie/business/brexit/faragebacked-irexit-conference-branded-a-sham-promoting-incorrect-information-36448458.html

woman11017 · 02/01/2018 10:44

And privatisation of the police force.
Again, nothing to worry about, and we should totally get behind it.
It's not as if we'd have racist vigilantes running private detention centres is it?
evolvepolitics.com/tories-to-give-private-firms-like-g4s-and-serco-powers-to-arrest-people-in-shocking-290m-privatisation-deal/

RedToothBrush · 02/01/2018 10:55

This is an article about Adam Perkins who says that 'welfare dependency can be bred out'.
www.theguardian.com/society/2016/mar/09/adam-perkins-welfare-dependency-can-be-bred-out

The argument he sets out in his book, he tells me, is essentially that the welfare state “becomes a production line for damaged kids” and encourages unemployed households to have more children than families in work.

This is Toby Young, getting all excited about it.
www.spectator.co.uk/2016/01/tell-the-truth-about-benefit-claimants-and-the-left-shuts-you-down/

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BigChocFrenzy · 02/01/2018 11:07

So Farage spreading lies again
Fortunately, the far right hate speech and alternate news haven't made much headway in the RoI

Opinion polls in the RoI consistently show that about 85% wish to remain in the EU

woman11017 · 02/01/2018 11:10

Comes back to what you were writing about a few pages back, Red Terror of the 'wrong sort of fecundity' and their desire to control our reproductive power.

Remember Peter Lilley 's song at tory conference?

  1. He talks of those beaten to a pulp at the Battle of the Beanfield as 'spongers, descending like locusts' New Age travellers were the cultural refugees of the 1990s. 'Bogus' asylum seekers and "young ladies who get pregnant just to jump the housing queue".

Intellectual turnip heads like young come from a long tory tradition. Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 02/01/2018 11:11

#Apartheid 4 UK

Privatisation of public services means that the better off can receive the top quality services they want,
but gets the smelly lower orders out of their way

Privatisation of police means the wealthy paying to have the poor stopped, searched and even arrested

  • for daring not to stay invisible and in their own areas
Holliewantstobehot · 02/01/2018 11:13

What about selecting out people with male pattern baldness. Or right wing twats who are more likely to bring up their kids to be right wing twats. What a knob.

The welfare thing upsets me quite a lot. My parents were both disabled and we lived on benefits. I now also live on benefits, although I worked for many years in the past. I live on benefits because my son is disabled and I'm his carer. Does that mean that disabled people shouldn't have kids? Or disabled kids ought to be bred out? A social worker once told my parents they shouldn't have had kids even though they weren't as disabled when they did. I expect there are people out there who think this way. Like the people who say you only went for an autism diagnosis so you can get benefits. But then you can see this attitude already with the PIP and ESA assessments. And like he racism thing they never mean you personally.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/01/2018 11:15

Farage calling the 85% "EU Federalist"
Careful, Ireland - those 85% will soon be Remoaners and Enemies of the People

BigChocFrenzy · 02/01/2018 11:21

Maybe Farage will do a new "Breaking Point" poster for the RoI - showing queues of DUP supporters in orange sashes and bowler hats,
all applying for Irish passports as the DUP advised after Brexit

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 02/01/2018 11:22

Andrew Adonis‏
@Andrew_Adonis
Any day soon Govt hopes to smuggle out news it’s packing the House of Lords with more Brexit Tories, unless media damage causes Mrs May to delay. Tories already have 53 more seats than Labour, so this is unconstitutional. Jeremy Corbyn & Vince Cable shd be saying this loudly!

RedToothBrush · 02/01/2018 11:45

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism
Toby Young is a 'classical liberal'. The term is misleading with the use of the word liberal though - its about economic liberalism not social liberalism (often alternatively and more commonly referred to as libertarianism).

Notably:

They asserted that rights are of a negative nature, which require other individuals (and governments) to refrain from interfering with the free market, opposing social liberals who assert that individuals have positive rights, such as the right to vote, the right to an education, the right to health care and the right to a living wage. For society to guarantee positive rights requires taxation over and above the minimum needed to enforce negative rights.

Core beliefs of classical liberals did not necessarily include democracy or government by a majority vote by citizens, because "there is nothing in the bare idea of majority rule to show that majorities will always respect the rights of property or maintain rule of law". For example, James Madison argued for a constitutional republic with protections for individual liberty over a pure democracy, reasoning that in a pure democracy a "common passion or interest will, in almost every case, be felt by a majority of the whole...and there is nothing to check the inducements to sacrifice the weaker party".

In the late 19th century, classical liberalism developed into neo-classical liberalism, which argued for government to be as small as possible to allow the exercise of individual freedom. In its most extreme form, neo-classical liberalism advocated Social Darwinism. Right-libertarianism is a modern form of neo-classical liberalism.

This is where my beloved Freedom Association sits politically too.

Also very notable about libertarians is the relationship to fascism. Certain observations and theories along these are springing up particularly in the US over the relationship.

www.thedailybeast.com/the-insidious-libertarian-to-alt-right-pipeline?source=twitter&via=mobile
The Insidious Libertarian-to-Alt-Right Pipeline
Is it just a phase they go through—or is there something about libertarianism that attracts, well, uh, you know, racist kooks?

bennorton.com/the-libertarian-fascist-alliance/
The libertarian-fascist alliance

I find must admit that I find this article on 'fascist attempts at entrism to libertarianism an interesting angle' too.

itsgoingdown.org/response-fascist-provocation-entryism-isflc/
Response to Fascist Entryism Into Libertarian Circles

This is why Owen Jones boils my piss. He makes out that centrist social liberals who aren't left leaning enough to his tastes are libertarians and fascists. Which pretty much works to their favour (hello the split left of 1930s Germany you nugget).

I think the issue of 'no platforming' at universities, is going to get a LOT bigger in the UK. We've got two forces on a direct collision path here.

The freedom of speech stuff, isn't about accountability or critical thinking though. The denial of critical thinking by the left by no platforming, is an own goal and doesn't develop individuals ability to pick things apart. Instead you'll have people not encourged to think critically but exposed to 'free speech' encouraged by libertarians (with fascists piggy backing).

Libertarianism is what the vision of 'Singapore' model of Brexit was about. This is Boris's vision, but he shares this with Gove and Young (Fox is another one and Davis was always a devote libertarian who ironically relied on the EU to defend his libertarian beliefs). Hard Brexit might be being banjaxed but believe in this shit is still alive and well and that's the ambition in time post Brexit.

Important not to loose sight of that latest figure I saw for the current Tory party membership which is now thought to be 70% male.

I will keep banging on about this, but this is about Rights and the Human Rights Act and exit from the ECHR are the ultimate goal. Still.

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RedToothBrush · 02/01/2018 11:51

Does that mean that disabled people shouldn't have kids? Or disabled kids ought to be bred out?

Short answer: yes, if you are Toby Young.

He sadly is not alone in this view.

The whole assault on the 'undeserving poor' is about this. Eugenics rhetoric is the natural next step on this narrative.

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HermioneAndMsJones · 02/01/2018 12:06

Adonis is my favourite atm.
Finally someone ctually talking for the other half of the population. And talking loud and clear too.

DGRossetti · 02/01/2018 12:11

Does that mean that disabled people shouldn't have kids?

When my wife (accidentally) fell pregnant with her DS, first thing her GP did was assume she was having an abortion.

She has MS.

This was 1995.

Then the antenatal services presumed she would have a cesarean "because you're disabled".

In the end, natural birth, no pain relief.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/01/2018 12:20

red mentioning Madison reminded me that a major part of the US Revolution was caused by a group of wealthy men fighting to keep ALL their privilege and wealth

Remember how they reinforced the rights of slave-owners:
the US Constitution counted a slave as 3/5 of a person - and didn't give them any voting rights
That kept poor whites happy too - subhumans to look down on.

Classic fascist populism - a section of the wealthy, using demonisation of another group, to gain mass support of those on ordinary incomes

Those early days of the USA created a country that embedded White Supremacy, that never died out

James Madison, 1787 during discussions on creating the USA constitution:

https://abetterworldisprobable.wordpress.com/2011/02/25/james-madison-government-should-protect-the-minority-of-the-opulent-against-the-majority/ ?

".....The wealthy, therefore, would be outvoted in a democratic system and government would be overrun by the majority of working people.

To prevent the working class from attaining political power and expropriating the property and wealth of the rich (“an agrarian law”),

we have to “wisely” ensure that government “protect the minority” of the rich against the majority of the poor."

usuallydormant · 02/01/2018 12:23

I'm sure Farage and his cronies are just looking for a way to leverage the Irish Repeal the 8th campaign for his anti EU stance. I think we will see a lot more of him and his mates trying to influence the Irish in the run up to next year's referendum. Like the way immigration has been used in the UK to divide society, abortion is the Irish classic and there is an enormous potential for polarization. Given that quite a few international bodies (including ECHR) have slapped Ireland's wrists for not legislating properly on the existing rules, lots of scope for cries of sovereignty to save unborn Irish babies...

The Irish American lobby (so well represented in Trump's Cabinet to our shame) and the the DUP will also be looking for a way to make the 8th is kept and no doubt throwing lots of money at it. I'm sure Irish social media is already being primed for it.

They'll need to find a better messenger than Nigel through.

DGRossetti · 02/01/2018 12:27

It's been a while since this pearl of wisdom has been bought up. Maybe because it's so bleedin' obvious ?

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/01/2018 12:29

Women should have a right to an abortion without the state imposing deliberately demeaning conditions like vaginal probes (some US states)
AND a right not to be forced into one by the state - e.g. for eugenics or cost-cutting measures.

Rights over their body

I've read of cases in the US where women have been imprisoned - with the standard terrible prison conditions - merely so that a CS can be enforced against their will
cases where the state imprisons (only poor) pregnant women who are suspected of drinking or flouting other recommendations (sometimes because of poverty)

all because too many states prioritise the rights of the foetus from conception over those of women
Poor women only are affected by this
The better off are not.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/01/2018 12:36

Well run democracies have parties with joined-up thinking wrt public services / welfare state and paying for them

In Germany, Scandinavia etc people accept that good public services require higher taxation
There is a social contract - including in the European conservative Christian Democrat parties - that the better off pay more for this, because they can afford to.

Only dysfunctional countries - like the UK - have the disconnect between taxes and public services / welfare
The wealthy have successfully conned the rest of the population into giving them tax cuts

RedToothBrush · 02/01/2018 12:42

I saw this article today:

www.theguardian.com/science/2018/jan/02/egg-freezing-parties-wall-st-fertility-women?CMP=twt_gu
Fertility and canapés: why egg freezing parties are a hot item on Wall St

Pushing eugenics will only bump up the share price.

If you are looking to invest some money this year, may I suggest that future looks brighter and brighter for fertility clinics.

Women may not be allowed to reproduce naturally one day. If they do, they might be deemed criminals, thus allowing the removal of their children. What might happen to those children, I will leave to the imagination, after all in market forces rule and rights are no longer important, then those children are too disabled or too stupid to be deemed economically productive to society.

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woman11017 · 02/01/2018 13:06

Motherhood is a political issue; it's always been seen as a bit rude to say so, in England, anyway.

Great women's liberators like Alexandra Kollontai knew that and legislated accordingly.

A generation that has controlled our own fertility, sexuality and destiny has terrified them, clearly.

I too am not letting the ECHR go without a fight, and then I'll just follow it to a country which abides by it.

Holliewantstobehot · 02/01/2018 13:52

Sorry Liam but not gonna happen.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42543008

Hasenstein · 02/01/2018 14:08

Sorry Liam but not gonna happen.

He's the worst of the whole dishonest crew, as his lies are founded on ideological bias and craven willingness to do anything to serve his wealthy backers. He gives no consideration to public service and is just continuing to seek to pull the wool over everyone's eyes for purely selfish ends.

PaulDacreIsStillACunt · 02/01/2018 14:32

I heard Liam Fox is off to China today.

DS works for a massive Chinese company, which has an almost exclusively Chinese clientele. To the extent that he's picked up some odd snatches of Chinese (no idea what dialect).

Most Chinese businessmen are losing interest in the UK as a result of Brexit, with the feeling that the UKs "culture" (because, yes, that's how they see us) should really be kept well away from what the Peoples Republic are trying to achieve.

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