Westministenders: Rebel Rebel Your Brexit is a Mess.

[RedToothBrush]

Hot Tramp, I love you so!

The European Parliament have agreed to progress talks to the next stage. Despite Brexiteers saying its not legally binding, it is apparent that the EU certainly disagree.

Not only that, but the wording of the deal goes further. It binds us to not being able to agree and new trade deals for 2 years.

The All Important Amendment 7 to the Great Repel Bill has been successful. May’s power grab has a set back.

By just FOUR votes the government was defeated. How May will be regretting that pointless election tonight.

Parliament will have a meaningful vote on the exit terms.

But don’t be too excited. Brussels might not like this as May can not guarantee the UK will agree to a deal. It means the the EU are negotiating with parliament NOT May now.

There is also the suggestion that the mood of parliament is changing and is beginning to lean more towards a EFTA / EEA type deal.

But equally this could also send us to the brink with a deal from the EU that could be rejected by parliament.

The stakes just got higher.

Good posts, japancat!

Actually, I'm seething.

That post, in which we are implicitly urged to regard New Zealand as a great role model and bench mark for our post-Brexit aspirations has, I think, summed up Brexiteer aspirations in a nutshell for me.

Clearly, a whole bunch of them hated the UK being at the forefront of a whole load of industries, loathed the world-class status in various areas, hated the UK having political influence in the world: hated the modern UK, in short.

I get why Russia - a foreign power - would want to wreck all that.

I get why the tax-dodgers and economic libertarians of Belize would want to bust all that up.

I don't get why some UK residents still think it's 'patriotic' to want to dismantle the UK economically and politically.

LurkingHusband That makes me laugh and almost cry at the same time.

I see Viviennemary had to get back to work

Easiest way to silence a Brexiteer is to point out that no one gives a shit what they think. Least of all the government. As each passing day shows.

Clearly, a whole bunch of them hated the UK being at the forefront of a whole load of industries, loathed the world-class status in various areas, hated the UK having political influence in the world: hated the modern UK, in short.

Sometimes it does seem like that, doesn't it? It's really the worst kind of Talking Britain Down, but dressed up mendaciously as the opposite.

Can someone explain to me why the UK, the world's fifth largest economy, would want to be more like a country which ranks 53rd, and has about 8 times as many sheep as people?

OK. It is from an anti Brexit website. But interesting comments on the CETA. It seems the fact the UK is in the EU does have an influence on international banks choosing it as their location. Their EU location, if you like.

The deal also largely leaves out financial services. Canadian banks or insurers are treated just like those from any non-EU country.

That would be a worry for the UK. Not only are financial services our biggest export. International banks cite as a major attraction of London the passport they have to access the single market. Follow the Canada model and we would not have one.

This is why eurosceptics such as Norman Lamont, the former Tory chancellor, say they want a Canada-plus deal. The snag is the deeper you want economic relations to be, the more you have to put up with common rules, supranational courts and the like. Before you know it, you’ll be back to the Norway model or even recreating the EU.

infacts.org/uk-should-not-copy-canada/

Can someone explain to me why the UK, the world's fifth largest economy, would want to be more like a country which ranks 53rd, and has about 8 times as many sheep as people?

Sovereignty ? (Those that could spell it).

starting a petition to ask for a referendum on abolishing income tax

It may be too subtle to make the point about the will of the people, but we could perhaps get the issue to a level where it has to be debated.

I'm not sure income tax is the right example though. What about a referendum on moving the Houses of Parliament to Hull? Or a referendum on changing the system of MP selection to a jury type process, where citizens are chosen at random for a four year term like military service?

What's the betting the numbers of signatures required to debate a petition will soon be raised, or that the petition system will be changed soon?

Can someone explain to me why the UK, the world's fifth largest economy, would want to be more like a country which ranks 53rd, and has about 8 times as many sheep as people?

To be fair, I think what Brexiteers want is for the EU, and the RoW, to prostrate themselves at our feet, worshipping our awesomeness and scattering free-trade deals and unicorns in supplication. This will result in a new golden age of British global glory. This could be called the Because We're Worth It, Don't They Know Who We Are? and Sunlit Uplands model.

It follows that any lack of aforementioned prostration, worship and supplication is henceforth defined as BullyingPunishmentSpite.

However, in the apparently astonishing event of so-called BullyingPunishmentSpite, it will now turn out that our fallback plan, all along, is that we "managed fine" in the 1970s and that, furthermore, a 50-somethingth ranked economy based on jam, after decades of disruption, will be an equivalently desirable outcome.

I see Viviennemary had to get back to work

She went back to piss in nurses again on another thread. I wonder if she thinks I'm just following her around to stamp on her dreams of making everyone feel like shit.

Is there anyone on this thread actually in favour of Brexit?

Piss on...ho hum.

No climb it is generally an anti-brexit thread. Though we do get some over. For Brexiteers you want to visit the brexit arms threads I believe.

Is there anyone on this thread actually in favour of Brexit?

Yes. Didn't you see the post about spite and hate, and the one about New Zealand being a good plan?

(No offence to Kiwis!)

But cat you've forgotten about the highly wonderful power rangers TV series guest what I'm being tortured with right now

Glad to have caused amusement cat

Being an 8th Kiwi I was just a bit aghast at the dismissal of NZ culture. I also have 2 Uncles in Australia. It is almost as nonsensical to discuss NZ as if it had no relationship with Aus as it would be to mistake them for the same country. DD informed me Power Rangers is also filmed in NZ so we obvs have different cultural norms in our HH. I have long since given up following the minutiae of the thread.

Still trying to work out why NZ is so much better at rugby than RoW and why if I want decent wool for knitting or socks I have to import it from NZ.

On Uni Visas Edinburgh and Glasgow announced this week they participating in the pilot streamlining tier 4 Visa process for non-EU students.

Those who voted to relinquish EU membership are welcome to post on RTBs thread, as long as there's a logical response to points being made.

Where is RTB by the way?

X-post with Hashi

I'm not sure income tax is the right example though. What about a referendum on moving the Houses of Parliament to Hull? Or a referendum on changing the system of MP selection to a jury type process, where citizens are chosen at random for a four year term like military service?

With the nod to the dangers of analogy pointed out up thread, I think the point of such a referendum is to underscore the lunacy of the Brexit referendum without choosing something impossible.

Even I would concede that there is no reason why Brexit shouldn't be possible. If planned carefully. The problem is that planning would have always exposed the problems were are now facing, and would have prompted a supplementary debate of "is it worth it ?".

I know there really are people so dumb that they could be whipped into voting to abolish income tax with absolutely no thought as to what to do after that. Same as Brexit.

Again, there's no reason we couldn't abolish income tax, if it was planned carefully. But that planning stage would uncover the problems and highlight that it's one of those things that's easier in the mind than the reality.

One of the more depressing things about Brexiteers is their naive - some might say religious - belief that once out of the EU the UK government is somehow going to have a Damascene moment and abandon it's general stance of shitting on the less well off in the UK, and suddenly start giving them a decent education, industrial infrastructure, and breaks to get on in life.

Bearing in mind where the UKs (largest) share of Marshall Aid went ...

(Be careful with that last one. It rather pisses all over some Brexiteer bollocks about Germany getting help after the war while the UK didn't. To be honest, I wouldn't even bother arguing. One thing I have noticed about real headbanger Brexiteers is when they have been corrected, they just ignore and carry on anyway)

Ah, now you see cat, you're talking NZ down. And of course you shouldn't dismiss their relationship with Australia though its fine to do so with Ireland or rEU and the UK. Because, well, you lost so get over it.

For the non Power Rangers fans (are there any?) the current Assistant conductor of the Royal Scottish National Orchestra is from New Zealand. The Associate Principal Oboe recently returned to Scotland after a 5 year stint at the New Zealand Symphony Orchestra.

I think lhs income tax analogy works well.

I can see the vote stop campaign now. There's no need to completely overhaul it, for instance we could have a choice as to where it goes. Then when it's voted in to stop they suddenly froth that of course that's not properly stopping income tax at all and we have to completely abolish it.