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Brexit

Westministenders: Rebel Rebel Your Brexit is a Mess.

971 replies

RedToothBrush · 13/12/2017 19:46

Hot Tramp, I love you so!

The European Parliament have agreed to progress talks to the next stage. Despite Brexiteers saying its not legally binding, it is apparent that the EU certainly disagree.

Not only that, but the wording of the deal goes further. It binds us to not being able to agree and new trade deals for 2 years.

The All Important Amendment 7 to the Great Repel Bill has been successful. May’s power grab has a set back.

By just FOUR votes the government was defeated. How May will be regretting that pointless election tonight.

Parliament will have a meaningful vote on the exit terms.

But don’t be too excited. Brussels might not like this as May can not guarantee the UK will agree to a deal. It means the the EU are negotiating with parliament NOT May now.

There is also the suggestion that the mood of parliament is changing and is beginning to lean more towards a EFTA / EEA type deal.

But equally this could also send us to the brink with a deal from the EU that could be rejected by parliament.

The stakes just got higher.

OP posts:
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OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 19/12/2017 22:05

They’re not saying they hadn’t found out whether not their plans were compatible with staying in the single market until now are they? How is everyone so comfortable with this level of dereliction, regardless of stripe?

m.facebook.com/pestonitv/posts/1966566813668054

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 19/12/2017 22:07

Although it is good news

Robert Peston
@Peston
.@johnmcdonnellMP has reviewed Labour’s manifesto to determine whether important policies would be made impossible by softest of Brexits or staying in EU. They wouldn’t.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/12/2017 23:01

DD telling Barnier that the EU won't be allowed to cherry-pick:

Westministenders: Rebel Rebel Your Brexit is a Mess.
Maryz · 19/12/2017 23:16

namechange34, Theresa May and all the other UK negotiators have repeatedly rejected the "Norway model".

Obviously it's a possible compromise, but I don't believe it will be acceptable to most Brexiters.

I don't like the word evil, but it's difficult not to think the DUP are happy to deliberately hurt thousands of people in order to preserve their "way of life". I get that they feel driven into a corner by the equally appalling Sinn Fein, but they are, and have been for 40 years, the very epitome of a group who would be happy to bite off a million people's noses to spite a single face Angry

Maryz · 19/12/2017 23:29

It's all very well to say "make a success of Brexit" - but how?

How is it possible, when the government don't know what they want, the negotiators don't have any suggestions, and everyone knows that everyone, especially the ones who are already struggling, will be much worse off.

[baffled]

Motheroffourdragons · 20/12/2017 06:33

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

missmoon · 20/12/2017 07:19

Very interesting study on the regional impacts of Brexit. It's a follow-up to an earlier study which focused on the UK regions, this one looks at all European regions: www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/20/brexit-vote-exposure-trade-effects-report-uk-regions

They basically find that the Midlands and Northern regions will be worst affected, followed by Irish regions, and then (to a much lesser extent) Dutch, Spanish and some German regions.

missmoon · 20/12/2017 07:20

The academic paper is also available to download, it's open access (link in the Guardian article).

missmoon · 20/12/2017 07:22

Sorry, I meant French not Spanish!

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 20/12/2017 07:24

Those judicial reforms aren’t going unchallenged

Guy Verhofstadt
@guyverhofstadt
Democracy is being dismantled in #Poland & it's time to act. The EU must stand against the rule of law backsliding by PiS Government, which is contrary to EU values.This isn't about punishing Polish people, who deserve better from their Government: bit.ly/2CDKTnA 🇵🇱🇪🇺

Matthew Ryder
@rydermc

BBC reporter just now....

‘...it is said these actions are a threat to democracy in Poland or, in the EU jargon: “the rule of law”’

‘The rule of law’ is EU jargon? Wow.

Diane James MEP
@DianeJamesMEP
The European Commission will on Wednesday take the unprecedented step of triggering Article 7 — the so-called nuclear option — against Poland

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.politico.eu/article/european-commission-to-trigger-nuclear-option-against-poland/amp/#click=t.co/n0pXx3DDdC" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.politico.eu/article/european-commission-to-trigger-nuclear-option-against-poland/amp/#click=t.co/n0pXx3DDdC

Cailleach1 · 20/12/2017 07:46

Woman from Legatum Institute on DP yesterday. Saying CETA allows for financial services.

There is a small chapter on financial services in CETA. Chapter 13 on the links below. I don't think it discusses financial services in the way it is implied that 'nothing will change. NOTHING. WILL. CHANGE.' It appears to be very limited in scope and indeed may be of more benefit to the EU.

www.international.gc.ca/trade-commerce/trade-agreements-accords-commerciaux/agr-acc/ceta-aecg/chapter_summary-resume_chapitre.aspx?lang=eng#a13

trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2014/december/tradoc_152982.pdf

Cailleach1 · 20/12/2017 07:54

As regards financial services more specifically, CETA does not prevent the EU and Canada from keeping a number of regulatory and licensing requirements in place. In order to take advantage of the EU financial services ‘passport’, for instance, Canadian firms will have to establish a presence in the EU and comply with EU regulations. Therefore, the ‘Canadian model’ could ultimately make it harder for UK-based financial services firms to sell into the EU market.

openeurope.org.uk/today/blog/what-could-the-eu-canada-free-trade-deal-tell-us-about-brexit/

So, they can do business if they establish themselves in the EU. That is most certainly not what the woman from the Legatum Institute was implying. And it makes sense. They won't be in the EU anymore and can only carry on like usual if they are established in the EU. Just like London had been.

Cailleach1 · 20/12/2017 08:00

And if extra benefits are conferred on an ex-EU UK, then they may have to be conferred on Canada as well. So, the UK negotiating position may as well be 'The UK and Canada want...'

Maybe more. South Korea, Japan? Davis' negotiating team going in to negotiate say 'The UK, Canada, Japan and South Korea want...'

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 20/12/2017 08:24

Delightful person, nadine, doing an excellent job at false equivalence

Nadine Dorries
@NadineDorries
If Anna Soubry et al want to complain about being intimidated, they really should look in the mirror every time they heckle, intimidate and abuse in order to try and shut down #Brexit supporting MPs in Parliament. #Double standards

TheElementsSong · 20/12/2017 08:34

Delightful person, nadine, doing an excellent job at false equivalence

Haven't you got the memo? Only Brexiteers can be victims of sneering/bullying/intimidation, and you're playing the snowflake card if you dare to point out murder and rape threats against Remainers.

lonelyplanetmum · 20/12/2017 09:01

So now there's no difference between heckling and death threats? Although thinking about it why do we have such a heckling,hectoring parliamentary culture anyway?

The whole two sides of the house, two party control needs to change. Surely it needs to become more collegiate and round table ish. I never really thought through the difference with PR and first past the post before, but that needs to change too.

At a tangent as ever I meant to say that I went to the Brighton Dome festival chorus Christmas concert at the weekend with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra .

There was one especially written song devoted to Brexit, to the tune of John Lennon’s ‘and so this is Christmas'. It went "And so this is Brexit...and what have we done?"🎶

The chorus was a bit uncomfortable..."England’s over as we know it, Brexit’s coming now’. It built to a rousing conclusion of " why not just Remain."

It was Brighton of course, but the audience of full capacity (1,700) applauded very vigorously, a couple of older guys did appear to leave, although I then saw them hovering at the back I think. The vast majority applauded. It was sung by Juliette Pochin, who works with her husband and conductor James Morgan. I guess they wrote it?

https://www.midsussextimes.co.uk/whats-on/music/review-brighton-festival-chorus-singers-serve-sparkling-aperitif-1-82967533_

BiglyBadgers · 20/12/2017 09:05

The whole two sides of the house, two party control needs to change. Surely it needs to become more collegiate and round table ish. I never really thought through the difference with PR and first past the post before, but that needs to change too.

Don't they need to renovate the houses of parliament? Possible a good opportunity to move to a new set up that isn't different parties sitting in opposite sides. Something more circular. The whole jeering and shouting at each other business is flipping embarrassing.

BiglyBadgers · 20/12/2017 09:08

You know, I'd never thought about it before, but brexit and loss of free movement must be such a massive pain in the arse for touring orchestras, theatres and such like. It's going to make EU tours so much more work and expense, not to mention having to get visas sorted for musicians and such like. I'm not surprised they aren't big fans.

lonelyplanetmum · 20/12/2017 09:17

I think the majority of the classical and modern music world is opposed to relinquishing our membership.The arts and music generally thrive on collaboration and being outward looking.

Concern from musicians about our departure including travel restrictions meant the Oxfordshire-based prestigious EU Baroque orchestra quietly moved to Belgium followed by the European Union Youth Orchestra relocating to Ferrara and Rome.

LurkingHusband · 20/12/2017 10:34

So now there's no difference between heckling and death threats?

c.f. verbal sexual assualt and "banter" Hmm

LurkingHusband · 20/12/2017 10:58

Scarcity of resources leads to wage inflation - or shit productivity. There's an added twist of irony that it will largely be the bigger commercial outfits (whe never wanted Brexit) that will be driving the demand and exacerbating the shortage.

www.theregister.co.uk/2017/12/20/defra_brexit_it_plans/

The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs’ (Defra) poor track record on IT puts the department at high risk in decoupling its systems from Europe, the chair of the government’s spending watchdog has warned today.

According to the National Audit Office, Defra is one of the departments most affected by the EU Exit. Almost half of Defra’s work streams (20), the programmes created to support Brexit, have an IT element. Many of these IT components are still being scoped, and could range from minor updates to entirely new systems, said the report.

“In a number of cases, work streams with an IT component are still in the ‘discovery’ phase, establishing the needs of users and the scope of the service needed. Until this stage is completed, the scope and timescale for some work streams cannot be finalised and are subject to change,” said the report.

The report confirmed Defra has so far hired just over half of the 1,200 Brexit policy wonks it intends to hire by next year, as previously reported by The Register.

Meg Hillier MP, Chair of the Committee of Public Accounts, said the NAO’s report shows that Defra has been hit with an immense amount of Brexit work.

“Defra’s track record of failure in implementing a new system of farm subsidy payments, which the Committee examined in 2016 and 2017, hardly fills me with confidence in its ability to replace EU programmes with home-grown successors.”

The department has a long history of failure over its delivery of of the Common Agricultural Policy system.

At the end of 2015, senior government officials were hauled in front of MPs to defend their deeply "dysfunctional" and "childish" behaviour, which contributed to the botched £215m Common Agricultural Policy IT system, and up to £180m in EU fines.

Defra received income of £3.3bn in 2016-17 from the EU, mostly to reimburse direct payments made to farmers under the Common Agricultural Policy.

Defra’s programme is highly dependent on EU Exit policy in other parts of government, with extensive cross-government collaboration and co-ordination required, said the report.

"For example, on borders, Defra is collaborating with the Home Office, HM Revenue & Customs and a number of other departments. To help ensure that the necessary collaboration and co-ordination occurs, the Government has established the Border Planning Group, a senior officials cross-government group."

Earlier this month, the watchdog warned the UK border could be left exposed after Brexit as departments have failed to plan for new IT systems.

MPs have also warned of the "catastrophic" scenario of UK taxmen at HMRC failing to have a back-up system in place if its Customs Declaration Service (CDS) programme is not ready in time for Brexit.

RedToothBrush · 20/12/2017 11:06

BBC Breaking News:
EU sets end of UK Brexit transition period as no later than 31 December 2020

OP posts:
Holliewantstobehot · 20/12/2017 11:06

So, they can do business if they establish themselves in the EU. That is most certainly not what the woman from the Legatum Institute was implying. And it makes sense. They won't be in the EU anymore and can only carry on like usual if they are established in the EU. Just like London had been.

And where would Canada's financial services be most likely to establish themselves in the EU? My money would have been on the UK given our shared language and past. Not now though.

HashiAsLarry · 20/12/2017 11:07

Rape and death threats are apparently fine if someone has an opposing view. They're asking for it you know? Like a woman in a short dress, etc etc Hmm]

DCs school had a group of actors in helping create a panto the other day. There was some brexit mockery going on. Brave I thought, considering the percentage of leave votes here. Went down mostly well though.

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