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Brexit

Westministenders: Rebel Rebel Your Brexit is a Mess.

971 replies

RedToothBrush · 13/12/2017 19:46

Hot Tramp, I love you so!

The European Parliament have agreed to progress talks to the next stage. Despite Brexiteers saying its not legally binding, it is apparent that the EU certainly disagree.

Not only that, but the wording of the deal goes further. It binds us to not being able to agree and new trade deals for 2 years.

The All Important Amendment 7 to the Great Repel Bill has been successful. May’s power grab has a set back.

By just FOUR votes the government was defeated. How May will be regretting that pointless election tonight.

Parliament will have a meaningful vote on the exit terms.

But don’t be too excited. Brussels might not like this as May can not guarantee the UK will agree to a deal. It means the the EU are negotiating with parliament NOT May now.

There is also the suggestion that the mood of parliament is changing and is beginning to lean more towards a EFTA / EEA type deal.

But equally this could also send us to the brink with a deal from the EU that could be rejected by parliament.

The stakes just got higher.

OP posts:
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LurkingHusband · 19/12/2017 16:16

The opinions I have heard about NI, from otherwise moderate, thoughtful people, is 'why don't they leave them to it?' What that means in practice is not fully clarified, but they don't see the N Irish as British.

So the "will of the [mainland] British people" would be to throw them under a bus ?

Just for lolz, I found this sentence when refreshing myself over the work of Leni Riefenstahl

In Mein Kampf,[5] Hitler talks of the success of British propaganda in World War I, believing people's ignorance meant simple repetition and an appeal to feelings over reason would suffice.

seems to sum it up ?

Maryz · 19/12/2017 16:17

If there was a whole-UK referendum on Northern Ireland, the rest of the UK (barring possibly Scotland) would be happy to chuck it into the Irish sea, I suspect.

Look at how few people even knew who the DUP were when the went into government (or whatever they want to call it Hmm) with the Tories.

I bet the majority of Brexiters would be happy to have NI stay in the CU etc etc, and simply have a travel and goods border in the Irish Sea if that meant speeding things up for the important bits of the UK.

Ireland and the EU would be happy with that too.

Most of the people of NI would be happy with that (not hard-line DUPers, but everyone else).

May can't do it because Foster, is refusing it. Also because Scotland, Wales and London would want the same deal (ie effectively not Brexit).

So someone who represents less than 30% of the voters of NI, fewer than 300,000 votes in the last general election, is "holding the rest of the UK to ransom".

Until the agreement with the DUP most MPs had forgotten NI exists. Since the GFA they haven't had to think about it. They'd much rather it all went away.

Maryz · 19/12/2017 16:19

I actually crossposted with you LurkingHusband and Peregrina.

I think we are saying the same thing (only I'm a heck of a lot more long-winded, sorry).

Peregrina · 19/12/2017 16:24

I think you spell it out better than I did though Maryz. I think that's exactly how the majority of English people think. I won't speak for the Scots and Welsh, I suspect their opinions are different.

HashiAsLarry · 19/12/2017 16:30

Only a few months back there was a thread on here that revealed a lot of mainlanders didn't even know NI was part of the UK. So I wouldn't imagine the mainland Brits end masse view any northern Irish person as British as all. In certain areas, this also extends to the Scottish and the welsh.

Nothomealone · 19/12/2017 17:31

I came to the conclusion that the words English and British are used interchangeably at least internally by many English people some time ago.

BiglyBadgers · 19/12/2017 17:49

I was filling in a form recently and it had one of those equality bits to it at the end. For nationality it had English and British as two separate options. Of course you can be British and not English, but I couldn't for the life of me work out how I could be English without being British Confused

BiglyBadgers · 19/12/2017 18:25

Can we all just take a moment to appreciate Ed Milliband's Christmas card. Grin

Westministenders: Rebel Rebel Your Brexit is a Mess.
OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 19/12/2017 18:26
Grin
OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 19/12/2017 18:27

They avoided the thorny subject, apparently

Trump speaks to UK’s May after row over Tweets

apnews.com/ef1fde9c846b424d96520e27c8e677c8?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP

A White House official, who was not authorized to discuss the call on the record, says said the tweets did not come up during their call.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 19/12/2017 18:30

Love Barnier's mug. A* trolling

Westministenders: Rebel Rebel Your Brexit is a Mess.
Yamayo · 19/12/2017 19:14

Ed Miliband's card is epic. It was a silly photo taken on the Last Leg to erase memories of his infamous bacon sandwich moment.

Yamayo · 19/12/2017 19:15

Can't see the mug properly. What does it say?

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 19/12/2017 19:22

Ooh sorry, it is a bit blurry.

“Keep calm and negotiate”

Grin
DentalDilemma · 19/12/2017 19:52

Anyone read the thread about moving to NI to give birth so the OP can secure EU citizenship for her child? Again plenty of posters who don't seem to know that NI is part of the UK. A fair few frothing Brexiteers who think having EU citizenship is completely unnecessary but somehow can't bear others trying to retain / obtain it. All topped off
with someone thanking God for Trump. It's comedy gold.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/a3115672-WIBU-to-move-to-Ireland-to-give-birth

Yamayo · 19/12/2017 19:56

Keep calm and negotiate. 😁

HashiAsLarry · 19/12/2017 19:57

dental I only read the first page and that was enough!

DentalDilemma · 19/12/2017 19:59

Speaking of comedy gold, this made me smile. The Cheese of Truth tells you all you need to know about the Daily Heil and the Scum in under 7 seconds:

Maryz · 19/12/2017 20:06

To be fair, with that thread I think she started off saying she was thinking about moving to Ireland, only changed it to NI part way down.

The Irish Embassy in London and the Irish passport office are inundated. I hope not one single person who is applying for an Irish passport voted to leave Angry

MidnightCaterer · 19/12/2017 20:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HashiAsLarry · 19/12/2017 20:36

I don't know anyone who voted leave then applied for Irish citizenship, but I know some Irish people who voted leave and are angry that people are applying for citizenship or registering their DC like me. It baffles me.

mathanxiety · 19/12/2017 20:41

Wrt the DUP, BigChoc - yes indeed, two birds with the one stone there. They express non-existent hurt feelings of possibly non-existent Muslims in Magherafelt, thus fostering the notion that we will all be adopting Sharia next, that Muslims are determined to erase Christianity from Europe, and at the same time sticking it to the majority on the council that voted to remove the socking great Union Jack from a town that voted for a nationalist majority city council. I personally think the DUP are evil.

namechange34 · 19/12/2017 20:44

Lurker of the last 18 months here...there was a live Facebook chat on the British Embassy Paris page today. The civil servants seem confident that it is going going to be a Norway type deal. A bit of woolly reassuring but some interesting stuff too. I also learnt about "frontier workers", a phrase I had never heard before - i.e. living in one country and working in another.

LurkingHusband · 19/12/2017 21:10

For those looking back to the 70s ...

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/19/brexit-loss-influence-1970s-ex-mi6-chief-sir-john-sawers?CMP=share_btn_tw

Brexit is set to cause a loss of UK influence on a par with the 1970s, requiring a national assessment of how the UK’s future standing can be recovered once Brexit is complete, Sir John Sawers, the former head of MI6, has warned.

Speaking to the foreign affairs select committee, Sawers said: “We can see the trend of the coming years and we do not want to go through a repeat of the 1970s where the UK went progressively downhill compared to our national partners. We will need to turn it around. I am not sure how we are going to do it.”

Calling for an urgent reprioritisation of resources post-Brexit, he said: “We have to recognise a pretty stark reality faces us at the end of this process, and we have to rebuild from that.”

Accused by the Conservative MP Nusrat Ghani of providing only “gloom and doom” about Brexit, Sawers hit back, saying: “We have to acknowledge that Brexit is damaging our economy at the moment. Immediately after Brexit we suffered a 15% devaluation in our currency – we devalued all the assets in the UK by 15%. We are going through a Brexit inflation at the moment which means that people’s pay rises are not enough to keep up with real-terms incomes and, having 18 months ago been at the top of the G7 table of GDP growth performance, we are now at the bottom, so we are undoubtedly going through a bit of a dive. At the end of this process we will need to work out how to rebuild our economy and our influence in the world.”

He added: “For the last 25 years our foreign policy has been closely tied up with working closely with our international partners, especially France and Germany.” At the same time, he said, the US had become a less reliable partner, “making the international system less effective than in the past” .

He said Brexit meant the UK would suffer “a double loss” at the UN since it would not be able to shape the influential common EU policy in New York or be able to rely on EU support at the general assembly.

Sawers called for more funding for security services after Brexit, saying: “It will be vital that we sustain, in many ways enhance, our investments in diplomacy, defence, intelligence – very high investments are made already – if we want to have an influence in the world of the sort we have had over the last 30 or 40 years.”

Sawers was giving evidence about the UK’s failure to win a vote at the UN general assembly to secure a seat for the British candidate on the international court of justice (ICJ), even though the seat was normally seen as reserved for a member of the EU. The seat instead went to an Indian judge, possibly reflecting a loss of general authority for the five permanent members of the security council.

The defeat has been seen as a symbol of a wider loss of UK influence at the UN in the wake of Brexit.

Sawers, a former UK ambassador to the UN, said he was surprised by the British defeat, adding that the distraction of the UK political class by Brexit may have contributed. Referring to the prime minister, he said: “She is not able to play the same international role in the world as the French president has in the past six months. That is just a reality.”

Another former UK ambassador to the UN, Lord Hannay, said some had spotted the UK’s decline in influence like a shark spots blood in the water. He added: “The trepidation index, when people mind if they trample on our toes, has gone down.” He said it was vital campaigns to win elections such at the one for the ICJ were begun as long as a year before the poll started, adding that efforts by the foreign secretary, Boris Johnson, to win the poll had come too late.

He warned that in future automatic EU solidarity over issues such as the Falklands might not be forthcoming. The EU surprised Argentina by imposing sanctions following the Falklands invasion. Hannay said: “The EU solidarity issue is now in play and I am afraid we will lose it.”

woman11017 · 19/12/2017 21:22

Home truths about the Home Office What should have been a straightforward application for leave to remain in the UK turned into a Kafkaesque nightmare for University of St Andrews’ lecturer Emily Michelson, whose research trip to Italy proved too much for visa administrators to handle

www.timeshighereducation.com/features/home-truths-about-home-office

I personally think the DUP are evil

I used to wonder about definitions of state evil but trumpDUPbrexit personify it. Easily.

They are pure evil.

Always useful to have moral reference points. Interesting.

And not unnoticed that C of E with its £5.5b of investments pays no tax and gets gift aid.

What a lot of starving, ill and homeless british and refugee people could be saved with that £5.5b.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/sophie-turton/church-taxes_b_5144964.html

And apparently Mr Welby knows that god supports brexit.
"It would be very good to have a ceasefire" "We have made a decision about brexit. We should make a success of brexit"

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42198627

Wonder what old ישוע or Jesus as the Christians call him would have thought of brexit.

Think I can guess.