Westministenders: The Art of the Deal

[RedToothBrush]

Well Trump seems to have put his foot in it.

Not that this should come as a surprise. For all the talk of closer ties with the US that was never going to happen. All that was need was for Trump to over step once too many.

By chance (?) Barnier also raised questions about our commitment to working with the EU on security.

Its almost as if we are being asked to choose whom we look to for security.

Meanwhile it sounds like the divorce bill is sorted - though this may not be as settled as that, if it comes with conditions. The deal might also be backtracked on, seeing as that appears to be the done thing presently.

Talks on Ireland are stalemated with Ireland threating to veto. No sign of a breakthrough here yet.

Talks on EU citz rights are reportedly going backwards (again) rather than going forward.

All of this is theatre for a British audience though, with the UK agreeing to everything. Because they gave again their cards when a50 was triggered.

The crunch is coming on whether we move to stage two before Christmas. We have no time to lose.

FGS. Mogg on tv today saying it is simple on the border in Irl/NI. As most favoured nation, that would mean they couldn't put one up anywhere else either. All his fellow travellers happy with that?

But such is the logic behind the fact that Ireland is the EU member while the UK is leaving.

And as such will enjoy the protection of the other 26 countries and their entire populations.

As I said (yet again) to MrsLH listening to the news earlier. On what planet, in whose mind did the idea of a context between one country and 27, or 60 million people and 400 million people ever look like it was going to go any other way ?

That said, I am enjoying the ongoing slow burn of Brexiteer brains simply not being able to compute what is happening or why (shades of the classic "Star Trek" beat-the-computer-tactic). Its especially nice to point out that if they can't understand what's happening now, then maybe - just maybe - they didn't understand what they were voting for.

Until they block you

I think Davis wants out. He's too lazy or it's too hard. Did I imagine a rumour a few weeks ago that a key Brexit politician had changed their mind? I'm sure I read that probably on Twitter because there was speculation about who that might be. Anyway, I thought then it was DD.

Most favoured nation is meant to be two way. Could roi even enter that as an EU country? Doesn't it also have to be ratified by other members of GATT/WTO therefore anyone with a grudge argentina could scupper it?

Most favoured nation is meant to be two way. Could roi even enter that as an EU country?

Before that, the question should be: Why should they ?

We're back to: you broke it, you fix it.

You brexit, you fix it 😀

Bolshy the political ineptitude of May and co has actually restored my faith in accountable democracy. Problem is she is absolutely accountable to friends and foes alike at home and abroad - sure makes getting anything done tricky but hopefully the final outcome will be the better for it.

Eternal optimist me.

I understood the Trump visit had been turned into a non-state visit (no banquet with Lilibet) and he would formally open the new US embassy. In normal circumstances I'd think we are a long way away from it being cancelled altogether over a Twitter spat, but we have been far from normal for some time now...

I also though the damning point about the D Green allegations is that it was extreme porn, ie the sort that is illegal to own / download / distribute. But clearly there isn't any real smoking gun, or he would have been for the chop a long time ago

I'm sure I read it WASN'T 'extreme' porn.

Rhiannon - it looks like you're right. This from today's Indie stresses that it is all legal but there was a LOT of it

For anyone wondering where our politics is heading

amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/01/jacob-rees-mogg-held-meeting-with-steve-bannon-in-london

They don't tell you why': threatened with removal after 52 years in the UK

Anthony Bryan was nearly sent back to Jamaica despite not having been there since he was eight. His status remains precarious – and he’s not the only one

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/dec/01/man-detained-threatened-with-removal-after-52-years-in-the-uk?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

I wonder how many of my black british school friends could be threatened with deportation.

I think Davis wants out. He's too lazy or it's too hard. Did I imagine a rumour a few weeks ago that a key Brexit politician had changed their mind? I'm sure I read that probably on Twitter because there was speculation about who that might be. Anyway, I thought then it was DD.

David Davis was always excellent at looking after 'number one'. Damien Green's sacking will give him the perfect opportunity to jump ship.

Too bad that he wasn't so concerned about the rest of us who will now have to undergo an expensive and painful 'exit' because he was too lazy to be bothered to put in the effort to negotiate a better deal.

The EU Parliament site has detailled analyses of NI options

• shame the UK govt cba / is too arrogant to do this type of work

Is NI even one of the 58 lost fag papers ?

Brexit and Northern Ireland: Legal, Political and Economic Considerations

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2017/596825/IPOLSTU(2017)5968255_EN.pdf

Page 17+ = covers the consequences of avoiding a "visible" border between NI/RoI
Pages 24-25 = the implications if an invisible border is not possible.
Page 26 = Conclusions:

"In short, any EU regime designed to accompany an "invisible" or "frictionless" border between the two parts of Ireland would be complicated and unsatisfactory,
and would be difficult to develop and operate
...
Either the UK as a whole or Northern Ireland as a separate trading entity could enter a free trade area with the EU.
This would not solve all these problems, but it would solve most of them.

Such a free trade area would not need to be the European Economic Area, although it would no doubt be similar to it, as explained in the Annex.
The possibility of Northern Ireland joining the EEA separately is discussed in another paper”
......
Northern Ireland and Brexit: the European Economic Area option

http://epc.eu/documents/uploads/pub75766_northernirelandandbrexit.pdf

useful to search the EU Parliament site for analyses of other Brexit topics:

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/thinktank/en/search.html?page=0&previousSubmitter=WORD&facetAction=&selectedAuthor=&selectedKeyword=&selectedPolicyArea=&word=brexit&selectedDocumentType=&documentTypes=&fakeSelectedPolicyArea=&fakeSelectedAuthor=&fakeSelectedKeywords=&previousResultSetDateStart=15-03-2013&dateStart=&previousResultSetDateEnd=27-11-2017&dateEnd=

Bloody embarassing, the contrast to the UK govt laziness, arrogance and ignorance

The DUP don't want NI to be treated differently to Britain ?

During the foot-and-mouth outbreak, Ian Paisley Sr was proclaiming loudly

• he only had one volume level ! -

"Our cows are Irish"

The DUP are the original "cake and eat it" gang

I wonder if most Leavers would really prefer a better Brexit deal, rather than giving in to veiled Unionist threats of violence, or open threats of bringing down the govt

"Taking back control" seems to mean giving up control to a tiny NI Orange Taliban

Noone is saying Green should be jailed, but imo he should be treated like any other paid employee:

Most of us would be sacked if there was this much evidence against us.

Neil Lewis, the detective who examined Green’s computer in 2008, said he had “no doubt whatsoever” that it was Green who accessed pornography, and not someone else in the office.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/01/david-davis-threatens-to-quit-if-damian-green-sacked-unfairly

“The computer was in Mr Green’s office, on his desk, logged in, his account, his name.

In between browsing pornography, he was sending emails from his account, his personal account, reading documents …

It was ridiculous to suggest anybody else could have done it.”

Don't know if you can watch this in Germany, BigChoc but it was the funniest thing. Debate about the border from Dublin on Channel 4 news.

Matt Frei and co seem to have been instructed to be all John Humphreys about brexit, so he was even shoutier than normal.

The UKIP fellow was a mansplaining dick and there was a wee man at the end arguing for Irexit .

Sense was talked by a constitutional lawyer who pointed out that even now the current border has legal issues which haven't been resolved. And a business woman who was charming and patient in the face of politicians who could upend the great turnaround that Ireland's economy has made. Mr UKIP seemed unaware of how little trade Ireland has with the UK compared to EU. An Irish politician, tried to keep his temper despite Mr fascist ukip trousers.

www.channel4.com/news/brexit-and-the-irish-border-live-debate

The only NI politicians on anything broadcast in this country are the nazi loons from the DUP. It's just like it was during the 'troubles'. (oxygen of publicity and all that)

Yup: they're going after 'Commonwealth' british, now.

Who will it be next?

@SarahLudford
'an emerging scandal over the Home Office’s brutal treatment of a number of long-settled, retirement-age UK residents who are being aggressively pursued over their immigration status

@tealtastic
Scandalous. @theresa_may 's "hostile environment" strategy leads to Commonwealth pensioners being threatened with deportation after more than 50 years in the UK

No EU to defend them.

Nazi policies.

Any leaver who says otherwise is a big fat fibber.

Yet I thought the British Government had now decided that the Commonwealth was important, after all? The "Anglosphere". Silly me, it's only the White Commonwealth that they might care about.

I'm thinking you have never worked in a university, big choc

I can think of a number of senior staff at institutions that have done far, far worse things than watch porn at their desks and the uni hasn't managed to sack them. It appears there are different rules for senior male staff in the rarified world of academia

Driven - it depends on the laptop whether he is likely to have anything of interest / importance national security wise. Very little is accessible on regular government laptops, and not a lot more on the more secure issue ones (though obviously anything lost could be embarrassing or worse)

Even then White Commonwealth is still “immigrant” and subjected to the same goalpost-shifting BS as everyone else. (Altogether now: “We don’t mean you,” doesn’t actually mean anything.)
Yup. And prepare for the cries of "well we didn't mean that but..."

Bolshy My first real job was a post-doctoral research fellowship - back in the early 1980s ! so internet porn was not yet an issue.
However, in any dysfunctional institution, the most powerful can often flout the rules that apply to the little people.

That is my pov wrt Green, DD & co:
They are outraged when they are treated no better than ordinary UK residents in analogous situations

Instead of realising how it is for the rest of the population - and then e.g. campaigning to change the rules - they tantrum to be made a special case

imo, their Brexit demands - and their outrage & incomprehension that these could be denied - are a logical consequence of always assuming that the standard rules do not apply when they personally want something

DD, the "defender of civil liberties" hasn't threatened to resign over the hundreds of cases of longterm UK residents being bullied by the state, put into deportation centres, deported to places where they have no means to live,
sometimes even ignoring court orders by a judge forbidding this.

DD has not threatened to resign over the injustice of those stopped by the police for "walking / driving while black"

Nor to resign over all those with disabilities who are wrongly - and deliberately - found fit to work, forced into debt and destitution

No threats to resign over the built-in 6 weeks delay to Universal Credit, a deliberate stealth "nudge" to try to starve people into work
No threats to resign over those who are too poor to buy enough food for themselves and their children