Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westministenders: The Art of the Deal

989 replies

RedToothBrush · 30/11/2017 13:11

Well Trump seems to have put his foot in it.

Not that this should come as a surprise. For all the talk of closer ties with the US that was never going to happen. All that was need was for Trump to over step once too many.

By chance (?) Barnier also raised questions about our commitment to working with the EU on security.

Its almost as if we are being asked to choose whom we look to for security.

Meanwhile it sounds like the divorce bill is sorted - though this may not be as settled as that, if it comes with conditions. The deal might also be backtracked on, seeing as that appears to be the done thing presently.

Talks on Ireland are stalemated with Ireland threating to veto. No sign of a breakthrough here yet.

Talks on EU citz rights are reportedly going backwards (again) rather than going forward.

All of this is theatre for a British audience though, with the UK agreeing to everything. Because they gave again their cards when a50 was triggered.

The crunch is coming on whether we move to stage two before Christmas. We have no time to lose.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
23
BigChocFrenzy · 05/12/2017 19:16

Devastating Must Read: Fool Britannia !

Depressing, but very informative view on how others see us, also the cold facts about Brexit

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/fool-britannia-brexit-uk-great-britain/article371375699_//_

Mice scurry through the Houses of Parliament, sniff the trouser cuffs of venerable lawmakers,
then dart from sight, scampering down corroded old pipes that trickle perilously close to high-voltage cables, threatening catastrophic fire
– although the smellier fear is a sewage leak flooding through this dilapidated palace on the Thames.

< YUK ! Does he mean the SPADs ? >

And that is the brighter side of British politics today, where disaster looms and incompetence reigns
...
The Prime Minister is a mess.
Even her enemies consider Theresa May with a wince of pity.
She is trapped, exhausted ... as she trudges to the podium for the next public humiliation.

Westministenders: The Art of the Deal
BigChocFrenzy · 05/12/2017 19:19

I was just reading that the Houses of Parliament are in severe physical disrepair and need £3 billion+ in renovations
That'll be postponed a few years, if politicians have any sense of self-preservation left

woman11017 · 05/12/2017 19:30

Crash out. Not what a lot of leavers voted for in good faith.
But there we are.

artisancraftbeer · 05/12/2017 19:39

There was an excellent long read in the guardian last week on the state of the Houses of Parliament.

If they don't do something soon, the whole thing will go up in smoke anyway. There are some interesting comments from serving mps.

mathanxiety · 05/12/2017 19:55

I agree with Simon Jenkins in the Guardian ('they are Irish'). He is 100% correct in blaming successive Westminster governments for creating the monster now huffing and puffing and about to blow the house down. I hope he speaks for many in his anger.

RedToothBrush · 05/12/2017 20:16

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-42245012/iain-duncan-smith-eu-needs-to-back-off-or-move-on?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_politics&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central

IDS pitching to walk out of talks.

Nicky Morgan MP @ nickymorgan01
This is madness. Walking away when the Brexiteers encounter difficulties they never bothered to anticipate is not in the national interest, betrays the futures of millions of young people & those who never wanted to Leave in the first place

OP posts:
HesterThrale · 05/12/2017 20:22

I'd been thinking that the end of Feb might be a good time to have a massive collective demo against Trump, fascism, racism and Brexit. But I feel now it might be largely over by then. It feels like the Brexit nonsense is escalating and we can't carry on like this for long.

woman11017 · 05/12/2017 20:26

@BritishQuakers
BREAKING: Quakers In Britain have adopted a new #SanctuaryEverywhere manifesto calling for an end to the institutional violence and discrimination in the UK immigration system.

www.quaker.org.uk/news-and-events/news/quakers-challlenge-immigration-policy

The quakers are brilliant.

@jk_rowling
Just unfollowed a man whom I thought was smart and funny, because he called Theresa May a whore. 1/14

Excellent thread on misogyny from the left as well as the usual suspects.

woman11017 · 05/12/2017 20:44

Think this is not ending soon, Hester but looking forward to it.
IDS pitching to walk out of talks
Owen Patterson was on Channel 4 news, looking a bit teary, up against Alistair Campbell.
Hope Morgan, Soubry et al work out how to walk through the correct division lobby for the next vote then. Hmm

ElenaGreco123 · 05/12/2017 21:13

I love Lufthansa pilots. They flew through mighty storms and real storms. And this.

German pilots ground 222 flights after refusing to deport asylum seekers

Flight crews did not want to help send people back to Afghanistan, local media report

Between January and September 222 flights were cancelled, according to German government figures, with most – 140 – coming at Frankfurt airport.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/german-pilots-refuse-deport-asylum-seekers-lufthansa-angela-merkel-migrants-a8092276.html

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 05/12/2017 21:19
Grin

Parliament votes for How to Stop Brexit as book of the year

www.theguardian.com/books/2017/dec/05/parliament-votes-for-how-to-stop-brexit-as-book-of-the-year?CMP=twt_books_b-gdnbooks

RedToothBrush · 05/12/2017 22:05

www.thesun.co.uk/news/5075098/boris-may-cabinet-revolt-eu-rules/amp/
BRACE FOR BORIS Cabinet revolt brewing as Boris Johnson challenges Theresa May EU over rules ‘deal’
Hard-line Brexiteers 'infuriated' as Theresa May strives for 'a common set of goals' to satisfy Dublin in Brexit negotiations

Tom Newton Dunn article.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 05/12/2017 22:18

Point here. The Rebel Remainers fear Corbyn more than Brexit. Which is why they have not rebelled. The Rebel Brexiteers fear not getting their way more than anything. They are more reckless and less likely to compromise.

This is more likely to produce a challenge to May than anything previously. Brexit at all costs.

OP posts:
woman11017 · 05/12/2017 22:26

^That makes sense. Adversarial political structures are not our best friend at the moment. Brextremists remind me of louts on crack.

Peregrina · 05/12/2017 22:32

Yet I still think that Boris doesn't really believe in Brexit.

thecatfromjapan · 05/12/2017 22:46

I think Boris Johnson's borderline delusional egotism will be the subject of many theses 10 or 20 years hence. There will be arguments as to whether you can place one individual at the centre of a political analysis ("Was Boris Johnson a C21 Henry VIII?"), or whether that is simply impossible in a democratic era, and it is always necessary to take a structuralist approach to historical-political analysis.

I'm quite sure that Boris believes in Boris with more certainty than the Pope's faith in God.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/12/2017 22:57

More humiliation for May:
Indie reports that Arlene has been refusing Theresa's phone calls

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-theresa-may-dup-ireland-border-eu-talks-setback-arlene-foster-updates-a8093826.html

…But, after twice telling journalists the call was set to take place today, No 10 was forced to admit later that it did not know when the crucial conversation would go ahead.
“The call will happen whenever it happens,” a Downing Street source said.
It appeared the DUP believed that little would be achieved from a direct conversation between the two leaders until major changes were made to a proposed deal on the border.
< the DUP won't talk to the UK PM until she agrees first to do what they want Hmm>

the DUP criticised the “ambiguity” behind a plan for “regulatory alignment” with the EU to avoid a hard border – explaining why, 24 hours earlier, the party had forced Ms May to pull the plug on a deal.

< May is desperately trying to be ambiguous but neither the DUP or the EU will accept this. Which one will she finally cave in to ? >

lalalonglegs · 05/12/2017 22:59

Actually, I do wonder if Boris does believe in Boris. BoJo has become an all-encompassing brand but all his actions - his constant need to push boundaries and bite the hand that feeds him - seem to be a naked cry for validation

BigChocFrenzy · 05/12/2017 23:03

I expect the Fail, Sun & Express to concentrate very hard the next few months on that Royal Wedding
They may be able to avoid all mention of any real news,
e.g. May digging herself ever deeper, her govt spinning further into chaos ...

I expect the Torygraph will have to create its own narrative, as a broadsheet is not so able to ignore the disaster being made of the most important change for the country since WW2

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 05/12/2017 23:25

Sun Politics
@SunPolitics
Boris Johnson slams ‘cowardly’ businesses for giving in to left-wing activist group’s demands

'Leftie activists trying to silence newspapers they dislike are attacking the very basis of our democracy'

Peter Jukes‏
@peterjukes
Apparently @BorisJohnson is more preoccupied with papers that promote hatred than actually looking after Britain's foreign policy, or protecting Brits languishing in Iranian jails because of his bluster

prettybird · 05/12/2017 23:31

Interesting different perspective of Corbyn supposedly not commenting on the DUP blocking progress and/or only commenting on "just about anything else" only a genocide Hmm and also the supposed boycott of R4.

I have to admit I already have a jaundiced view of Nick Robinson after he bare-facedly lied on BBC News during Indyref about Alex Salmond not answering his question (I'd watched the press conference in question and Salmond did specifically answer the question by name - he just didn't give the answer Robinson wanted)

https://www.thecanary.co/uk/2017/12/05/bbcs-nick-robinson-caught-twisting-truth-twice-12-hours/

AgnesSkinner · 05/12/2017 23:32

Yuk, Boris reclining on a couch is all yours lala.

Finally, May seemed to have woken up to sorting it out and had the semblance of a deal and the DUP, just 1/65 of Parliament, has shafted it?

Why can’t May just tell the DUP to feck off and that the UK as a whole will stay in the SM and CU? Surely, there are enough Tory Remainers, Labour and SNP MPs to support it to get through?

HashiAsLarry · 05/12/2017 23:41

Nick Robinson was called out a lot on twitter earlier for saying Corbyn hadn't responded when he had a few hours beforehand, and saying he'd been talking about other things - the tone of which made them seem unimportant. That of course was the ethnic cleansing of the Rohingya (hopefully spelling right this time), which isn't just a nothing issue.

I'm not Corbyn's greatest fan, but I can't abide bullshit from politicians or press.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/12/2017 00:01

Simon Jenkins: Theresa May must call the DUP’s bluff – this EU deal has to happen

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/dec/05/theresa-may-dup-eu-deal-minority-party

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 06/12/2017 06:30

Alleged Terror Plot 'To Kill Theresa May' Foiled By Police And MI5 - Reports

m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/alleged-terror-plot-to-kill-theresa-may-foiled-by-police_uk_5a272120e4b02d3bfc3663eb/