Westministenders: The Art of the Deal

[RedToothBrush]

Well Trump seems to have put his foot in it.

Not that this should come as a surprise. For all the talk of closer ties with the US that was never going to happen. All that was need was for Trump to over step once too many.

By chance (?) Barnier also raised questions about our commitment to working with the EU on security.

Its almost as if we are being asked to choose whom we look to for security.

Meanwhile it sounds like the divorce bill is sorted - though this may not be as settled as that, if it comes with conditions. The deal might also be backtracked on, seeing as that appears to be the done thing presently.

Talks on Ireland are stalemated with Ireland threating to veto. No sign of a breakthrough here yet.

Talks on EU citz rights are reportedly going backwards (again) rather than going forward.

All of this is theatre for a British audience though, with the UK agreeing to everything. Because they gave again their cards when a50 was triggered.

The crunch is coming on whether we move to stage two before Christmas. We have no time to lose.

When it comes to reckless opportunism, the DUP makes the SNP look like bumbling amateurs.

Very true lonely

The outpouring of relief and activism from the majority of countries and remain cities ( and villages!) in britain at the idea of the proposed NI deal was consciousness raising, I agree too lonely.

It could be that that spooked them.

It was a pretty minor concession, woman. It shows how badly the Remain side's wishes have been ignored that we were so willing to jump aboard the bandwagon of "regulatory alignment" .

@Andrew_Adonis
Important to understand that Brexit could implode without an election or the Tories falling. Just as Tories replaced PM & carried on when poll tax imploded in 1990, so Tories wd most likely replace leader & carry on if Mrs May’s Brexit collapses in coming weeks/months

Report on Today programme about impacts of Brexit on NHS medicine supply chains, I think about 07:40. Quite worrying, and the first time I have heard it discussed other than on this forum. Every now and then the BBC does something sensible and asks the right questions, unfortunately not often enough.

It was a pretty minor concession, woman. It shows how badly the Remain side's wishes have been ignored
Absolutely.

the first time I have heard it discussed other than on this forum
They are spooked, and bullies are not brave.

And shortage of house builders:
www.theguardian.com/business/2017/dec/05/housebuilders-issue-brexit-plea-as-poll-reveals-uk-reliance-on-eu-workers?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

And food shortages:
www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/04/brexit-labour-shortage-will-force-uk-to-import-more-fruit-winemaker

Coming up:

therefore we get a hard brexit
That's their cunning plan. Including Jezza's by the looks of it. None of them have the SM presence of remain atm. No matter how many they employ. As a geography graduate you would have thought that may might have realised that wangland is shrinking by the day.

I suspect the truth that dare not speak its name of the past few days is that Tory - and to a certain extent UK government - mendacity is coming home to roost. No one is going to trust fine words alone, which rather scuppers the SOP of making grand statements (re: Manchester, Grenfell et al) and then weaseling out when they think no one is looking.

I have to say that I find the curious case of the Labour that did nothing might actually be bearing fruit, as the vacuum is sucking in quite negative Brexit stories.

I think we should spare a shred of sympathy for the Mail, Express and Telegraph not really . In the absence of "Corbyn: what a loony !" stories, they have to play a delicate balancing game .... they're quite happy to run the "evil EU" line and play to the gallery. But if they over egg that, they risk suggesting that May isn't the person for the job.

That being the case, the next leader of the Tory party won't be someone they want to sort Brexit. It will be someone who will be able to play the role of UK David to EU Goliath. Which is where any behind doors discussions are headed .

Hmm, the Tories might carry on, after they did with the Poll Tax fiasco, only to be slaughtered at the next election. It's taken until now for them to begin to win back support in Scotland. The only real difference between now and then is that in John Smith/Blair, we had people who looked like Prime Ministers in waiting. We don't with Corbyn.

Report on Today programme about impacts of Brexit on NHS medicine supply chains,

Some medicines (mine) are already unavailable.

we had people who looked like Prime Ministers in waiting.

but then where did Major come from ?

Nicola Sturgeon @NicolaSturgeon

This could be the moment for opposition and soft Brexit/remain Tories to force a different, less damaging approach - keep the UK in the single market and customs union. But it needs Labour to get its act together. How about it @jeremycorbyn?

And Major ended up having more backbone than all the present gutless lot. He faced down the headbangers.

In retrospect.

Major appeared to come from nowhere, and won a surprise victory in the election, like Cameron. Some say there was some voter fraud to achieve this, but nothing was proved. But then, as Tony King said on election night in 1997 as the results started to come in, "this isn't a landslide, this is an asteroid hitting the planet.", so he was just a placeholder for the time being. History will be kinder to him, he already looks much better, facing down the headbangers and being one of the architects of the GFA.

Given the situation with pretty much all our political parties right now, an asteroid hitting again may be a good thing. But one that wipes out the dinosaurs type rather than a slight damage to the landscape type.

re: Major ... funnily enough, I found myself almost nostalgic for Thatcher for a moment. Certainly as regards the Britian First Trump-tweet incident.

It's inconceivable that Mrs. Thatcher would have just accepted it, as Theresa May has (and it's interesting to speculate how much the enormous matter of Brexit is sapping every available resource in HMG). ISTR she ripped Reagan a new one over the Falkands, and Grenada.

And if the UK wants to know what the US thinks of us .... well start with Grenada, where they comprehensively told us to "shove it".

So, is TM lining up to keep the whole UK in the single market?

So, is TM lining up to keep the whole UK in the single market?

While declaring, "Nothing has changed, nothing has changed." Will the headbangers be convinced?

Tbf, that's pretty much what I though Starmer's plan was all along. Stay in the single market, but reframe some of the terminology.

It's not a bad plan really so long as leaving the EU is still happening, ignoring the obvious not leaving thing.

Probably not but it might be that she’s realised that she really has nowhere else to go if she wants a deal. She might have the numbers to get that kind of deal through Parliament with Labour and DUP support. Staying in charge of the party is another issue altogether of course.