Westministenders: Money, money, money

[RedToothBrush]

The big developments are that the government have signalled they are prepared to pay more and to involve the ECJ when it comes to citizens rights on condition that we move to talk of trade. But no apparent progress on NI. Which is significant with Ireland threatening to veto.

The EU has not changed its stance at all. Since Day 1.

There is always a worrying omission and lack of commitment to retain the Charter of Fundamental Rights. The bonfire begins.

Talk is of Green still going in a reshuffle, possibly with Gove replacing him as Deputy PM.

Coalition talks in Germany have broken down, and the British have got excited about it, whilst the German response have largely been a slight shrug.

Its been a much quieter week, despite the budget. Thank goodness. There are lots of outstanding issues that are lurking in the background like the Green one though.

The main message coming from the budget, has not been any new policy, but the dreadful economic forecast for the next few years.

Ah, OK; thanks Patty.

I share your scepticism, Rhiannon. And in any case, it all feels too little, too late.

I've repeated posted that I am wary of Corbyn.

There has been total radio silence from my MP if you try and ask about Brexit (5 unanswered emails going back to June). Whereas anything else gets a headed-paper reply. I'm also getting updates from "theyworkforyou".

That said, there is a lot of sense in a long game, as until there is something concrete - a vote in the commons - we're into smoke and shadows. And it would be all too easy to become fatigued fighting a ghost. Much easier to remain silent, and let the Tories devour each other like the sharks they are. So I'm willing to wait with him for now.

The smallest humans on earth are able to catch one of the biggest creatures - and elephant - by rigging a heavy log to a noose made from woven vines that is elastic. The poor elephant put its foot in the loop, and starts to drag the log. But because the vines stretch, it can't break it with a tug.

So it has to drag the log until it's exhausted. At which point the hunters would finish it off.

Hopefully all Corbyn has to do is remain silent, and let the Tory press drag him and Labour around until they (their poor readers) are exhausted.

Anyway, back to that great unfinished novel.

A comment now from Jon Danzig on the Toynbee- Corbyn piece: eu-rope.ideasoneurope.eu/2017/11/24/has-corbyn-seen-light-brexit
Sorry, I reported “Polly Toynbee says Corbyn said he would now vote Remain”. She actually says he voted Remain originally and hasn’t changed his mind. Nothing on TheCanary (Corbynista) that I can see.

Emily We can say that report (May & Timothy decided alone on hard Brexit) has a high degree of confidence.
North is quoting from a Times report - under paywall, but I posted the key parts upthread - by what they consider very reliable sources.
Easy enough to confirm from disgruntled cabinet ministers that the policy was never discussed in cabinet beforehand.

So, it isn't just a neutering of Parliament. It was a neutering of the gov't. Was Brexit a vote for a dictatorship? Or Nick Timothy to take precedence over the electorate?

I'm sure Labour are aware that Tories will desperately want to shift the blame for any Brexit disaster

Obviously they'll blame the EU, but they'll also try to blame "traitors, enemies of the people" etc
which is what Labour will be if their leadership speaks out for Remain, or even a "watered down" or delayed Brexit

Remember, Labour got lumbered - unjustly - with blame for the 2008 financial crash and its effect on the UK

Of course, there is also a minority of very doctrinaire figures on both the hard left and the hard right - so both parties - who would welcome a disaster because that is the only way the public in a long established democracy would turn to real extremes

Their one chance to remake Britain to their dreams

She actually says he voted Remain originally and hasn’t changed his mind

I find that more interesting in a way, since it's well known that Corbyn is antipathetic to the EU overall.

The problem with such a moronic referendum as we had was the "if you're not this, then you're that" brand of logic it delivered. A brand of logic almost tailor made for the less discriminating voter.

Many remainers (puts hand up) were not asserting that the EU was paradise on Earth. In the same way many Leavers were not asserting we were being swamped by darkies. But if there are only two caps to chose from ...

Maybe the only good thing to emerge from "The UK:2016-2066" will be a sudden realisation that for all our proselytising about democracy around the world this past century, there was precious little true democracy at home.

In fact, if we really wanted to kill Brexit stone dead, all we need to do is to show that it would lead to future governments dictated by the will of the people, rather than a bunch of stuffed rosettes clinging to power through an outdated misogynistic, patriarchal, WASP mechanism that was past it's sell by date in the 1800s. There isn't a type big enough our heavy enough for the Daily Mail to scream "HALT THIS BREXIT MADNESS".

EmilyAlice I think that (Timothy-May decision to leave Single Market; no consultation with colleagues or business; no real understanding of implications thereof) has the ring of truth.

Rumours suggest that businesses meeting with DExEU officials are being told in no uncertain terms that leaving the SM, the CU and ending FoM are absolutely non-negotiable events; the decisions there have been taken; businesses must adjust to this. Moreover, rumours also suggest that no-one appears to have taken any notice of representations made from those business sectors as to the likely impact (incredibly negative) of these decisions.

It is, frankly, very shocking. Or it should be. It's certainly, surely, unprecedented for decisions of such long-ranging magnitude to be made in such a manner. Parliament should be outraged and so should the media - on our (the electorate) behalf.

I find the silence deafening.

businesses must adjust to this.

Interesting that going bankrupt - with all that entails for customers as well as staff - is now "an adjustment".

Kind of redefines the scale, doesn't it. If going out of business is "an adjustment", then presumably a high school massacre is a policy revision ?

Yes, LH, absolutely.

It's an utterly extraordinary state of affairs, really. Absolutely shocking. John Lewis and Sainsbury's telling the public that this is biting and will bite hard, with serious impact on profit, costs, choice, prices and quality. Banks setting up HQs elsewhere (already). Businesses already not being able to afford the UK-related areas of business. Businesses telling the government that strangling immigration is going to cut deep into what they are able to do, Higher Education pleading for a rethink on student immigration.

But the answer is a great big 'No. We're not listening.'

We have the most anti-business government ever.

An Opposition who will not capitalise on that, or even make a show of opposing it (however symbolic that demonstration might be).

A media who are not articulating the incredulity that this situation should be greeted with.

And you are absolutely right. It's being done by a kind of brainwashing that covers all this with weasel words like 'adjustment', when 'adjustment' actually means economic carnage.

We've come a long way in a short time.

The scale really has been readjusted, hasn't it?

I think history will be UK:1956:2016 - The Death of Empire.

Yes, I agree that Timothy was dictating May's EU policy.

I teach English to a U3A class here in France. This morning we got on to the subject of Brexit (lesson plan postponed 😀) and they were really shocked by what is happening in Britain. They said that it had done them a favour, because if they had ever thought that leaving EU was a good idea, they can now see that it would be an incredibly bad one.

Peregrina - don't think the British Empire will be truly "dead" until Scotland is independent and Ireland re-unified can't comment on Wales

Daniel Hewitt‏Verified account
@DanielHewittITV

NEW: I’m told the Prime Minister has written to Mayor Andy Burnham to say govt will only pay “reasonable” costs spent by Manchester in response to May’s terror attack, NOT the full £17m.

NEW: I’m told the Prime Minister has written to Mayor Andy Burnham to say govt will only pay “reasonable” costs spent by Manchester in response to May’s terror attack, NOT the full £17m.

Do you think Theresa May is now doing a Boris and actively attempting to get herself sacked?

Tbh I'm at the stage of eating my own body weight in cake and hoping for the best

Manchester has already abolished it's specialist rape team this year due to funding.

Are we going to see coppers collecting money to protect the streets while they are on duty?

The council used money from the social care budget in the interim to fill the gap.

I'm disgusted. What, out of the money they have spent, do the government deem unreasonable. I want to see it written in black and white so the public knows and can decide if the decision is fair or not. (Because we all know it's bullshit).

It's extraordinary, really.

Only a government with nothing to fear in the way of a critical media or realistic opposition could, surely, do something so crass?

NEW: I’m told the Prime Minister has written to Mayor Andy Burnham to say govt will only pay “reasonable” costs spent by Manchester in response to May’s terror attack, NOT the full £17m.

Anyone surprised ?

This is government SOP (not just Tories). Make a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig noise at the time, and then renege when everyone else is distracted.

How far back do you think they are going to row back over Grenfell ?

and then renege when everyone else is distracted.

I see from Chatting Mners that there looks like there might be a big distracting announcement at 5pm today. Gawd luv em.

I see from Chatting Mners that there looks like there might be a big distracting announcement at 5pm today.

I know the TAAT prohibition, but related to the Manchester/Grenfell mention upthread, has anyone else picked up this ?

Basically less able tenants are having what precious mobility they may have left removed (rather than being placed in suitable accommodation to start with). In the name of safety.

Probably safer for all if we keep the less able locked away out of sight permanently. You know. Like we did in the 1970s, when "Blue Peter" were ground breaking in introducing less able individuals into a lot of childrens lives for the first time.

(Don't worry, Tories, we'll beat that compassion of them yet, Bloody snowflakes.)

Big distracting announcement at 5pm?

Maybe, maybe not but

Jim Waterson @ jimwaterson
Unclear what's going on around Oxford Circus but lots of people running away from the underground station, people screaming and running into shops, lots of sirens and police on streets.

twitter.com/BTP/status/934103350949437440