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Brexit

Rumour has it, some remainers are a little glum.....

693 replies

Carolinesbeanies · 06/11/2017 10:03

So in the spirit of sharing our deluded brexiteer cheerfulness, heres a round up of some of this weeks good news.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-5040279/UK-exports-booming-outside-Europe.html

http://www.londonlovesbusiness.com/business-news/london-news/big-boost-world-bank-ranks-uk-seventh-in-its-doing-business-report/18554.article

https://global.handelsblatt.com/politics/world-trade-makes-a-comeback-845798/amp

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-volkswagen/vw-explores-uk-banking-licence-ahead-of-brexit-idUKKBN1D22KR

The government have 'found' £60billion to put is a slush fund for brexit.

https://amp.ft.com/content/f3271ac7-7439-319f-ba90-9252f59aafee

And in the week that saw the interest rate rise, the Bank of England said gloomily "as migration tightens, we will see wage growth". Note the 'we will'. Smile

Excellent. All this whilst the media obsess over impotent politicians as Britain works.

Rumour has it, some remainers are a little glum.....
OP posts:
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19
howabout · 30/11/2017 11:49

Peregrina I actually very much doubt the article is telling the whole story. Newsnight last night was talking about UK / ROI agricultural trading arrangements which would apply wherever the EU negotiation goes. I think the same is true for fisheries.

Incidentally the SNP are not in favour of moving the border to the Irish Sea. It would have a negative impact on Scottish ports. A cynic might conclude that the real problem is that an inability to apply a frictionless border in Ireland would imply an inability to do so between an Independent Scotland and England.

howabout · 30/11/2017 11:56

If you have my pov this pessimistic article on the skiing industry is a cheery news story for post Brexit Scotland. Scottish ski resorts are investing in ski manufacture to guarantee snow for the season. Local skiing is much more affordable than the French resorts in danger of chasing the ever decreasing ageing £.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42110566

Some may view it as Russian squirrels but I am bored of redissecting the bendy banana arguments. Landward is very good at presenting both the pro and anti Brexit arguments from the Scottish farming community. Countryfile tends to suffer from Remainer bias imho.

AgnesSkinner · 30/11/2017 13:07

Scottish ski resorts are investing in ski manufacture to guarantee snow for the season. Local skiing is much more affordable than the French resorts in danger of chasing the ever decreasing ageing £.

Then they also need to invest in better road clearing technology - a good dump of snow inevitably results in the snow gates being closed and Scottish ski areas (I would hesitate to call some of them "resorts") being inaccessible.

OliviaD68 · 30/11/2017 13:14

Look, squirrel!

howabout · 30/11/2017 17:18

Where's your sense of adventure Agnes

Good to see you've got a fun side Olivia Grin Wine
(St Andrew's Day with the 6 year old today so may be a bit more perplexing than usual)

Off to click on the fab Unicorn google doodle.

AgnesSkinner · 30/11/2017 17:29

howabout My sense of adventure was carefully put back in its box once I saw all the rocks poking out of the snow at The Lecht. Heavenly, it is not.

howabout · 01/12/2017 16:31

Those of you who doubted there was a business angle to the This from BBC business today:

prospective royal nuptials, time for a rethink.

After Meghan and Harry's walkabout in Nottingham today, Edinburgh-based handbag firm Strathberry has completely sold out of its £455 "tri-colour leather midi tote" which adorned the arm of the bride-to-be.

The company is naturally "thrilled and honoured" and will be restocking soon.

Now, how are sales of the cashmere wool-blend coat going...?

Fortnum and Mason are also expecting a bumper boost but you would never guess from the headline.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42192645

shhhfastasleep · 01/12/2017 17:08

So none of this would have happened if we had voted Remain. Hmm
Thank God the economy is SAVED!!! Huzzah!

GhostofFrankGrimes · 01/12/2017 17:14

Fortnum and Mason are also expecting a bumper boost but you would never guess from the headline.

F&M can't get the staff darling;

Fortnum & Mason struggling to recruit staff after Brexit vote

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/01/fortnum-mason-struggling-to-recruit-staff-after-brexit-vote

OliviaD68 · 01/12/2017 17:27

@GhostofFrankGrimes

"My ignorance is just as good as your facts."

OliviaD68 · 01/12/2017 17:38

Plea to contribute.

I don't normally contribute to this kind of stuff but I did here. This is in my view the most important legal initiative after the Gina Miller case. It seeks clarity from the ECJ about the single sided revocability of A50 by Parliament. It is run by Jo Maugham QC via the Good Law Project.

There already is a legal opinion - called the Three Knights Opinion - which covers the gist of the case, but such is never as good as the ECJ being the only court with jurisdiction in the matter.

Core Conclusion
Therefore, if Parliament were to refuse to give legal effect to the terms of a withdrawal agreement negotiated with the European Union, or were to refuse to authorise withdrawal in the absence of any agreement, the notification given by the United Kingdom of its intention to leave the European Union could be treated as having lapsed (since the constitutional requirements required to give effect to that intention had not been met), or could be unilaterally withdrawn. Article 50 cannot have the effect of ejecting a Member State from the European Union contrary to its own constitutional requirements.

I'm sure this will easily reach £50k. I'm posting in case you feel you want to contribute to a useful anti-Brexit cause.

A50 PROJECT

howabout · 04/12/2017 11:28

Too good not to share. What Brexit bill?

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/dec/01/50bn-brexit-bill-qe-quantative-easing

Comes hot on the heals of Sir Brian Souter pointing out that the £1.5tn UK government debt is in fact sitting in UK pension funds rather than being productively invested in the economy.

www.heraldscotland.com/business_hq/markets_economy/15697671.Tycoon_calls_for_debate_on_pension_schemes_as_UK_misses_out_on___700bn_boost_to_growth/

OliviaD68 · 04/12/2017 11:43

@howabout

What is the point you are trying to make?

howabout · 04/12/2017 11:59

Why the UK is not Venezuala.

Or as the article states printing money to pay the Brexit bill may have a miniscule effect on the £ exchange rate and an even smaller effect on UK inflation. Getting a Good Deal in exchange would likely have a larger £ effect in the opposite direction. There is no need to "pay" for it out of UK domestic fiscal spending.

For context, in terms of the bigger picture UK plc does not in fact owe the Rest of the World 1.5 tn, as is often suggested, it is sitting in UK plc's pension funds.

OliviaD68 · 04/12/2017 12:13

@howabout

Oh my God. Do you really believe that?

So here are a few things wrong:

  1. there is a difference between paying for something and financing it. We will have to pay for it and own the expense. How it gets financed is a separate question. In other words we are not fronting the expense in anticipation of a Good Samaritan showing up and offering HMT to cover the costs unless that Good Samaritan is the UK taxpayer.

  2. when the article says we owe it to ourselves it doesn't mean pensions. it means the Bank of England via QE. BOE has bought gilts to inject liquidity into the economy and keep the yield curve low. It was a separate decision to issuing the gilts in the first place. The BOE can do that by creating money as central banks can do.

  3. pensions are heavily invested in gilts as they should be. But they need to be paid for their investment by HMT making the payments on gilts. There is ZERO chance of HMT defaulting on its debt and causing pensions and other investors to take a write down on their gilts. It would be virtually IMPOSSIBLE for HMT to even know who the end investors are.

Unbelievable.

So again: what is the point you are trying to make?

OliviaD68 · 04/12/2017 12:24
  1. whom do you think owns pensions? Pensioners. Are you suggesting we stiff pensioners with the Brexit bill ? And by extension the companies that sponsor them (DB schemes)?

  2. why do you think the BOE would agree to buy bonds from HMT? It is independent!!!

Peregrina · 04/12/2017 12:44

Are you suggesting we stiff pensioners with the Brexit bill ?

I won't be surprised if that happens.

OliviaD68 · 04/12/2017 13:03

@Peregrina

I don't mind it when people don't know. So long as they ask a question and not make assumptions taking them down a rabbit hole.

But what I find inexcusable is confident statements made where the information is clearly wrong or has been misinterpreted. I see this mainly from the Leaver side I'm afraid.

To me it's stupidity. You don't know what you don't know - yet you can't muster the courage or don't have the self awareness to ask a question. Instead it seems much more fun to make shit up and blab something out.

This @howabout person clearly has zero clue about QE or pensions or even basic accounting yet finds the courage to just say something.

Thus is born a term like Brexidiot.

howabout · 04/12/2017 14:14

1) there is a difference between paying for something and financing it. and that is how GO came up with the giant ponzi scheme that is student debt, or for a more EU eg how does Greece stay in the Euro? Shock

  1. makes no sense. Sadly I don't think PH or MC have a printing press but 3 of Scotland's banks do. All 3 of them are issueing plastic 5ers and 10ers prettier than the English ones. [Unicorns]

  2. I take it you have no idea who Sir Brian Souter is? There is a sensible debate to be had about his concerns re the levels of investment holdings in UK pension schemes. Otoh regulatory change has led to a more cautious approach and there is a feedback loop in the process. Otoh it is also true to say that a lot of defined benefit schemes are now mature and closed to new members and this would imply higher government debt holdings than in the past.

However the point I was and am still making is that 50bn is irrelevant in the context of 1.5tn and even the 1.5tn is irrelevant as it is endogenous to the UK economy.

OliviaD68 · 04/12/2017 14:33

@howabout

I don't know how to qualify your response. You literally have dug yourself deeper into a hole of ignorance.

I have been professionally active in Fixed Income markets in the City for 30 years and have never come across such base misunderstanding of how things work.

Suggestion: just keep believing what you do. It has served you fine so far.

FaithHopeCharityDesperation · 04/12/2017 18:03

A crushing bore
A sneery tone
Interesting posts

2 out of 3 ain't bad....

Peregrina · 04/12/2017 18:41

Huge news today about the NI/RoI border, and news about the EU/UK not being able to strike a deal. Where are the Leavers informed opinions, please?

Corcory · 04/12/2017 18:59

Olivia - how pompous and supercilious are you?

Just because you are so superior doesn't give you the right to speak about a poster like that.

I admire Howabout's restraint in not rising to it.

Very poor indeed.

OliviaD68 · 04/12/2017 19:17

@Corcory

I'm tired of the BS. I'm very respectful to those who have well founded and researched views. Or those who don't know and want to learn.

I have spent a lot of time researching the ins and outs Of Brexit. I don't know everything but I research aspects I don't know well. And I expect everyone else to do the same as it's so important to our future. That or shut up.

But I don't suffer fools and this @howabout person is one. As are most of the Brexit supporters I've come across. I say most because there are a few exceptions I have debated Brexit with.

FaithHopeCharityDesperation · 04/12/2017 19:35

😂😂

Some people don't suffer fools, I don't suffer condescending, snooty, abrasive antagonists.

I suspect there are many, many people like me out there.

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