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Brexit

Westminstenders: Sucking up to the 'enemy'

979 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/10/2017 18:09

Phil Hammond called the EU the enemy. Then retracted it. A classic political move, to pitch to one group and then say you didn't mean it after all.

This is the UK's negotiation strategy. Because the negotiation isn't really with the EU. Its the ongoing debate over the what leaving the EU actually means since it wasn't officially defined prior to the referendum and has been left to politicians to say its one thing to persuade people to support them and then decided no that's not really what they meant after all.

The whole thing makes it impossible for the EU to respond to us, because we don't appear to know what we want.

The EU have been explicit in their position. So things they can not do because of the limitations of trade rules and EU law. Its possible work arounds could be possible for some things - but certainly not all which too many Brexiteers fail to acknowledge.

And then there is the a50 deadline which is like a snake coiled around May's neck slowly strangling her. A self imposed screwing of our negotiating position. One that kills off our Brexit options and ups the stakes into a brinkmanship battle - not with the EU but between the hardlines and the sane. Its not even about remaining, though that option might well end up being the only option left on the table through our own folly, rather than out of EU malice.

The longer we take to work out what we want the higher the stake become and the more we destroy the foundations of our economy in the meantime, even if we do stay in.

We have only just noticed that we've lost money worth 25% of our GDP and we have no net assets anymore, when in early 2016 we had significant assets. Project Fear they said was wrong. Well was it?

We are flat broke as a nation.

Then there is the Great Repel Bill. The Bill was supposed to be in the Commons this week. It was delayed a week due to the sheer number of amendments. There are nearly a dozen with enough Tory rebels to make them stick. Including one for parliament to have a meaningful vote on what option we take - including no deal. If parliament rejected this, we would be left in a situation where we sure as hell better hope a50 is reversible or we could end up unlawfully leave the EU by accident!

And the Lords could be fun for the Repel Bill. The Labour whip has vowed to examine every amendment properly even if the commons don't. And they are free and within their rights to do so.

Still May could exit stage left. Or left with egg all over her face as she has to suck up to the 'enemy' for being such a tool for the last 18months, because she hasn't made progress on the negotiations that really matter. The Tory party ones.

Whichever way you cut it, you can be sure on only one thing: it will go to the wire for both. And possibly beyond with an eleventh hour extension to prevent chaos.

There are hints that the public mood might be changing. Not fast enough. Yet. Interest rates? A break in the triple lock? Phil's budget sure will be interesting. Especially as Brexiteers want money to prepare and protect us from a no deal scenario which they also tell us will be just fine and won't be a problem. Bye Bye NHS, don't get flu this winter. As a note once infamously said: 'There's no many left'.

We are Greece. Only worse. And out of pressure and deadlines we alone created. We just haven't realised it. Yet.

And if this doesn't make you cringe and brace yourself in horror:

Danny Kemp‏ @dannyctkemp
May wants to take the floor at EU summit dinner on Thursday to explain Brexit policy to fellow leaders, senior official says

Just remember her party speech and think: What could possibly go wrong...

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woman11017 · 25/10/2017 08:42

Interesting in that article pain that Thatcher tried to do something similar in 1983. Opposition prevented it.

ElenaGreco123 · 25/10/2017 08:55

Twitter plans to make political ads more transparent amid Russia revelations

www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/oct/24/twitter-transparency-political-ads-russia-us-election-trump

I can't wait to see the disclosures and data.

IrenetheQuaint · 25/10/2017 08:58

Oh, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that there were contingency plans for ration books. But given that they wouldn't be needed until March 2019 at earliest, there is no way they would actually get printed now - so many people will be born/die/move etc between now and then that it would be incredibly wasteful. It would also require sign-off from Treasury and the PM and would spectacularly fail all Managing Public Money rules. The level of expenditure would require a major procurement exercise. And given the scale and the cost of the enterprise, it would absolutely, certainly be leaked, resulting in a humongous public scandal and possibly the fall of the government.

TheElementsSong · 25/10/2017 09:14

Oh look, the excuses just keep coming Hmm

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-whip-brexit-letter-university-lecture-book-plan-joe-johnson-chris-heaton-harris-mccarthy-a8018511.html

“He was pursuing inquiries of his own which may in time, I think, lead to a book on these questions,” the universities minister claimed.

“So it was more of an academic inquiry, rather than an attempt to constrain the freedom that academics rightly have.”

However, the short letter made no mention of a book, simply asking for “the names of professors at your establishment” involved in Brexit teaching, plus “a copy of the syllabus and links to the online lectures.

RedToothBrush · 25/10/2017 09:14

Tom Newton Dunn @ tnewtondunn
Finally, on 4th time of asking, Jo Johnson: “A letter that could have been misinterpreted should probably not have been sent” @BBCr4today

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woman11017 · 25/10/2017 09:19

@NadineDorries
Absolutely right to question what our universities are teaching. Time to look at A level politics courses. Classes should be bias free.

RedToothBrush · 25/10/2017 09:24

Otto English @ OttoEnglish
George Mikes on "being clever" in England. This is why the BBC gives platforms to Climate change deniers and Nigel Farage #r4today
That's Brexit isn't it. The "what do experts know" mentality. The "are you saying I didn't understand it" thing.

I must be the height of bad manner cos I said this in July 2016.

Westminstenders: Sucking up to the 'enemy'
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prettybird · 25/10/2017 09:26

If he was just doing personal research for a potential book, then he should be formally censured for using the portcullis letterhead Hmm

woman11017 · 25/10/2017 09:44

Repel bill and (some of Sad) what happened last time there was executive rule from Westminster:

Northern Ireland (Temporary Provisions) Act 1972 was for one year and it had plenty of safeguards. For a start it had to be renewed annually. And renewed it was, for year after year after year, until the Good Friday Agreement.

This is how the Orders in Council worked. The legislation would be laid before the Commons as a draft order and within 40 days there would be a debate, limited to 1.5 hours and usually in the early hours of the morning – to an empty chamber. There'd be no committee stage and no amendments, just a yes/no vote.

In the mid-80s the Commons spent on average just 21 hours debating Northern Irish Orders in Council per year. The Lords spent 13 and a half.

These were not just regulations, but often very substantial bills. The 2003 Housing Order ran to 98 page, 149 clauses and five schedules. The 1986 Companies Order had 681 articles and 24 schedules. Electricity, aircraft and ship building were privatised by decree. The 'right to silence' - made famous by countless TV cop shows - was abolished using the same method

www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2017/10/25/this-is-what-happened-last-time-the-british-govt-gave-itself

Polly Toynbee, yesterday, defended Dominic Grieve to a rather mixed response to his ( a bit like Flake in the US) assertion that there was nothing he could do to stop brexit in parliament; will of the people, bla bla bla. Repel bill is moderately terrifying, even with Grieve's amendment.

woman11017 · 25/10/2017 09:49

DD on live now, if you dare:
www.pscp.tv/w/1OdKrAlBPqvxX

RedToothBrush · 25/10/2017 10:11

www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/oct/25/london-buy-to-leave-fines-kensington-chelsea?CMP=share_btn_tw
Profits dwarf 'meaningless' fines for London's buy-to-leave owners
Accidentally leaked data in Kensington and Chelsea reveals a total of just £85,000 in penalty fines last year across £500m worth of empty property

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PainInTheEerie · 25/10/2017 10:20
Grin

Ian Dunt‏Verified account @IanDunt

Love the idea of Heaton-Harris listening to the Jo Johnson interview this morning and thinking: 'Fuck. Now I have to write a book.'

lalalonglegs · 25/10/2017 10:22

David Davis's mendacity never fails to surprise -

Davis says trade deal with EU can be agreed within 12 months

Q: Do you still think a free trade agreement can be concluded in 12 months.

Yes, says Davis.

He says the arguments against are based on other situations which are different.

The EU and the UK start with identical regulations.

They want a tariff-free trade deal, he says.

The customs agreement would focus on rules of origin.

The bits of trade deals that are more complex do not fall directly under the trade headings. They are issues like aviation, and data exchange.

RedToothBrush · 25/10/2017 10:27

John Redwood‏*@johnredwood* 8s
Some claim negotiating trade deals w/ non EU nations is against EU law & can't be done until we leave. I see no evidence in the Treaties.

How long before this is debunked?

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RedToothBrush · 25/10/2017 10:30

Tom Newton Dunn‏*@tnewtondunn*
David Davis reveals he expects a Brexit deal to be agreed not until "the 59th minute of the 11th hour of the last day" - ie 23.59, 29/3/19.

feigns surprise

Shock
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RedToothBrush · 25/10/2017 10:40

John Redwood‏*@johnredwood*
Now that we are leaving, officials & ministers can work together on a better answer for the UK. Its called democracy and it could catch on.

Its too early isn't it Gin

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woman11017 · 25/10/2017 10:59

It's nearly 11, red a wee Gin will do no harm.

DD looks pretty sedated.
His speech is never very clear at the best of times. Gaslighting tactic number 12.

@IanDunt
Those impact reports must be an absolute horror story.

BoboEK · 25/10/2017 11:03

The impact reports will stop brexit. Period.

missmoon · 25/10/2017 11:07

"The impact reports will stop brexit. Period."

This is why they must be kept secret at all costs. I've wondered about leaks, because surely the temptation for civil servants to leak them must be enormous. But perhaps only very few people have access to the full set of reports?

RedToothBrush · 25/10/2017 11:08

This is the reason negotiations will run to the wire.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-mp-vote-uk-leave-eu-david-davis-deal-talks-european-union-trade-1050-a8018761.html
Brexit: MPs may not get vote on deal until after Britain has left EU, David Davis reveals

Illegal Brexit? Not in line with our constitutional requirements? Needs to be pre-empted.

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woman11017 · 25/10/2017 11:14

@IanDunt
DD: "Thing about the Commission is they do like to use time as a pressure point." Just incredible. It's like these guys didn't trigger A50.

@IanDunt
Benn confirms to DD that he said parliament might only vote on deal after we have left the EU. This is just extraordinary.

prettybird · 25/10/2017 11:17

Took a whole 34 minutes for John Redwood's claim to be debunked Grin

@simon_steen: @johnredwood try harder! read up on 'exclusive competence' in Art 3.1 TFEU & Art216 & 217 Lisbon Treaty. See also… https://t.co/yzazWXGKlt

BigChocFrenzy · 25/10/2017 11:22

May / DD plans not to allow the HoC - or HoL - a vote may be scuppered by the fact that EU will need time for its votes.
The UK can only abolish democratic oversight in the UK, not in other counries

Any deal must be voted on by the EU Parliament, all member states, some regional parliaments.
Barnier said at least 6 months must be allowed for this.
For a trade deal, any member country or regional parliament can veto it
For non-trade, i.e. housekeeping aspects, QMV (Qualified Majority Voting)

thecatfromjapan · 25/10/2017 11:31

Brexit really is a car-crash of the UK's democracy, isn't it? Sad

RedToothBrush · 25/10/2017 11:32

Alberto Nardelli‏ @AlbertoNardelli
Relax everyone. Davis says he has a good idea of what Europeans want. Mentions Germany, Holland and... Czechoslovakia

Where??!!!

He's not one for details is Davis?

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