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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Maddest of May and Boris's Dare

997 replies

RedToothBrush · 16/09/2017 22:43

Boris Johnson just dared May to fire him.

That's what his little rant about £350 million buses is.

Meanwhile its been pointed out that HMRC literally are incapable of handling a no deal and can only cope with an EEA / EFTA deal with no tariffs.

And given how good and on time the government are with computer systems even in a best case scenario are extremely unlikely to crack it in time.

Which makes Hammond's talk of a civil contingence plan, look, well half arsed and lacking.

We also wouldn't have planes able to fly to Europe under a no deal as we would no longer be part of Open Skies. This could leave thousands stranded. But no biggie there.

Meanwhile if the Leave Alliance have things right, May is about to serve our one year notice on leaving the EEA making all these things a reality.

Which is less like shooting yourself in the head and more like shooting yourself in the head, chest, foot, arm, leg and face (for a second time), whilst being run over at the same time.

But hey, Boris Johnson has it sussed in his 10 point plan. Especially the point where he says Brexit will be a success.

If you call success ending democracy, becoming a dictatorship, starving everyone, bankrupting the country and causing civil unrest.

Rule Britannia.

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TheElementsSong · 21/09/2017 14:34

Guy Verhofstadt on UK Govt Brexit plans for NI: I’m a Belgian so surrealism comes naturally to me

GrinGrinGrin

Cailleach1 · 21/09/2017 15:03

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-theresa-may-speech-florence-eu-commission-michel-barnier-negotiations-divorce-bill-a7959396.html

I don't understand this grandstanding megaphone 'intervention' in a venue in Italy stuffed with the usual Tory geezers. Will they be holding up placards? Nice jaunt.

There is already a process for the negotiations. She was also asked to speak to MEP's if she wanted. She didn't go to the negotiations to negotiate or deliver any message to the EP.

The Cons keep trying to make it political as if the rules and procedures don't exist. The Council have instructed the Commission already and Barnier has been chosen to carry it out.

She is trying to circumvent the appointed negotiations. As such it is a Conservative talking shop/ freebie day out. Whatever she says, it doesn't hold any water. If it is something she will then send to the Commission in writing, that is where it will become formal.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/09/2017 15:11

The papers seem to think her speech is crucial Confused
She seems to be trying to talk over the heads of Barnier and co, directly to the 27 members
But they are the ones who give Barnier his instructions and his clear limits.

LurkingHusband · 21/09/2017 15:13

Cailleach1

preaching to the choir Grin

May's Florence furtling is entirely for UK consumption. No one else cares. Well, no one that matters.

The EU has repeatedly had to remind the UK that it does not negotiate by speech, so in reality, tomorrow is already the damp squib it will be tomorrow, if that makes sense.

However, that does open the door to a game we could play ...

What could triffic Treeza say tomorrow that would be a game-changer ?

Usual rules: one entry per poster; be as creative as you like; as much fucking bad language as you can cram in; no racism; no sexism.

The winning entry will [probably] receive more coverage in the European press than the real one.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/09/2017 15:13

(paywall) This is May’s last chance to reassure business

Hmm < why can't DD just present this to Barnier ? Is May expected to have a magic touch ? >

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/this-is-mays-last-chance-toreassure-business-d0w60kwft

The prime minister must give the speech of her life in Florence otherwise Brexit vagueness will wreck the economy.

Anyone who has ever worked for a large business or serious organisation will be aware of the need for proper forward planning.

Under the cover of all that annoying talk about strategy and “blue-sky thinking”, good companies think ahead and ask practical questions.
What are we going to do next year to make more money?
What could go wrong?
What decisions have to be taken now to avert potential difficulties?

It is in this context, with business and the wider country asking what the precise plan is for Brexit,
that the prime minister’s make or break speech in Florence tomorrow should be seen.

In the last year business leaders have been messed around enough by the Tories,
who all but branded them crooks in their manifesto.
Before they lose what little faith they have left in British statecraft and start signing off on emergency preparations for the UK crashing out in a shambolic fashion,
May has to produce a clear plan on the sequencing for Brexit.

“Do these politicians not understand how the world works?
I’m already having meetings where we’re talking in detail about the second half of next year,”
says a senior executive in a leading City firm.
“Before you know it we’ll be talking about 2019.”
And we all know what is supposed to happen in March of that year.

With that immovable exit date drawing near, it is no exaggeration to say that failure in Florence would constitute something close to a national economic disaster.

Unless it is possible by teatime on Friday to give a crisp summary of three key points that would fit in small writing on the back of a business card
then May will have failed and business will know it and prepare accordingly.

What needs to be said to find a way through? It should run like this:

Britain seeks a two-year transition from March 2019 that looks very like membership of the EU, minus British MEPs.
Brussels gets its £10 billion a year for two years and no hole in its budget.
British business does not have to adjust twice and gains time.
.....
That clears the way for reaching an outline agreement on the future relationship next year,
with negotiating teams on both sides then working through area by area, building an agreement step by step.
.....
There may be bills to pay for joint programmes, if they are agreed.
Britain then exits fully in early 2021, and the future deal and negotiated arrangements take effect.

Ironically, cabinet ministers thought they were almost there on this,
and at the point where they could tell the small band of juvenile, sloganeering headbangers in the parliamentary party to shut up or risk prime minister Corbyn,
until Boris Johnson, always needing affirmation and attention, blundered in with a series of egomaniacal meanderings last weekend.

His “bombing raid on the PM”, as one colleague described it,
contained numerous misunderstandings of basic concepts relating to the EU and funding.

Far from undermining May, the mess Boris made of it, and the way it revealed the paucity of his support,
has slightly strengthened a prime minister lacking authority.

The chastened foreign secretary has now backed down from resignation, and will be in the audience with the chancellor Philip Hammond and Brexit secretary David Davis when May speaks.
.....
The latest draft of the May speech was circulating yesterday among key ministers before today’s cabinet meeting,
at which an attempt will be made to get ministers to agree, smile and stick to a collective line.

Beyond the detail on transition, the prime minister is also expected to try a constructive pro-European tone,
emphasising our common heritage and shared interest in security and intelligence,
an area in which the UK leads and wants to continue to help.

Those in the Tory party pushing for a hardline no-deal scenario need to switch their brains on and think about the economic and electoral implications.

The alternative to constructing a bridge to Brexit is best viewed not so much as “hard Brexit” but as stupid Brexit.

“Boris is prepared to crash out despite having no idea what it means.
He seems to be for brainless Brexit,”
says a minister who despairs of his lack of attention to detail.
“He doesn’t understand economics, or supply chains.
< hence totally unfit to make demands about Brexit >

This is no longer about Leavers or Remainers, this is about making sensible arrangements and helping business and the economy.”

LurkingHusband · 21/09/2017 15:22

This is May’s last chance to reassure business

That ship sailed long ago. We're in damage limitation mode now.

RedToothBrush · 21/09/2017 15:25

Amber Rudd now the new favorite to be next Tory Leader.

In the last month it has been Rees-Mogg, Johnson and Davis.

Now Rudd.

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LurkingHusband · 21/09/2017 15:25

the prime minister’s make or break speech in Florence tomorrow

Not sure where this "make or break" is coming from. I admit I only catch headlines, not the pages 94 of foreign news, but no one inside the EU appears to have attached any significance to tomorrow.

It's like they know something the UK doesn't ? Like the rules of A50 ?

In fact to answer my own competition upthread, aside from teh obvious "I'm resigning" or "Brexit is cancelled", the only significant thing TM could say tomorrow is that somehow the UK has discovered it doesn't need to play by A50, and we're off anyway (see my prediction last week).

BigChocFrenzy · 21/09/2017 15:29

I agree with it being about avoiding a "brainless Brexit" rather than hard / soft

Depressing to read that Bojo really is as ignorant about business planning and supply chains as we feared.
It's not just bluster - he really is that ignorant

I wonder how many other Ultras are as ignorant - and how many are "disaster capitalists" knowing full well the consequences of brainless Brexit, but being able to profit from them ?

During the Wall St crash, while most poor buggers were jumping out of high windows, a few clever devils created the base of their family fortunes then.

woman11017 · 21/09/2017 15:38

looks like more Remain solidarity protestors are going to meet her than would listen to her at the UN. Grin

Westminstenders: The Maddest of May and Boris's Dare
LurkingHusband · 21/09/2017 15:41

until Boris Johnson, always needing affirmation and attention, blundered in with a series of egomaniacal meanderings last weekend. His “bombing raid on the PM”, as one colleague described it, contained numerous misunderstandings of basic concepts relating to the EU and funding.

Westminstenders: The Maddest of May and Boris's Dare
LurkingHusband · 21/09/2017 15:44

^Depressing to read that Bojo really is as ignorant about business planning and supply chains as we feared.
It's not just bluster - he really is that ignorant^

Depressing, yes. But hardly a surprise. He wouldn't know an industry if it served him warm champagne.

woman11017 · 21/09/2017 15:44

LH Grin

And I like the poetry of this response to the confused old man at the UN.
"North Korea’s foreign minister, Ri Yong-ho, has issued a withering riposte to Donald Trump, likening his threat to destroy the regime to the “sound of a dog barking”, adding that he “felt sorry” for the US president’s advisers".

BigChocFrenzy · 21/09/2017 15:44

I fear the visit of May and her cabinet colleagues may be like an unwelcome visit from a flock of seagulls:

They'll fly in with a lot of wing flapping,
squawk loudly all the bloody time,
shit all over the place
and then fly off,
leaving someone else to clear up the mess.

woman11017 · 21/09/2017 15:47

Brexit: No one from the EU Commission is going to Theresa May's big speech

Exclusive: The Prime Minister’s audience will instead contain her own ministers and other dignitaries

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-theresa-may-speech-florence-eu-commission-michel-barnier-negotiations-divorce-bill-a7959396.html

Blush
LurkingHusband · 21/09/2017 15:55

I fear the visit of May and her cabinet colleagues may be like an unwelcome visit from a flock of seagulls

showing my age ????

Westminstenders: The Maddest of May and Boris's Dare
BigChocFrenzy · 21/09/2017 16:04

woman The AfD are expected to get 10-13 % of the vote.
Nowhere near power and no one will allow them into coalition.
However, sad to see a far-right party - cheered on by Farage and the patriotic Brexiters Hmm - get seats in Parliament.

They started off as an anti-Euro party in the West, but are now almost entirely just an anti-Muslim party, with their core support in the former East Germany

We've seen before, that those parts of Europe that have spend decades under either communist or fascist dictatorship, remain longterm backward politically and economically.
Dictatorships rely on nationalism and xenophobia to divert attention from economic woes and living under decades of that poison has very long-lasting effects.

Die Linke, which is mostly the former E German communist party, plus a bit of the SPD left, also tends to authoritarianism.

The eye-watering "Solidarity Tax" that was imposed during my first contract there, to finance E German development, is still there and looks likely to stay for decades.
The communists not only ruined the economy, but they instilled longterm attitudes and problems that are proving difficult to cure.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/09/2017 16:09

Despite that, Merkel's CDU slogan is quite popular:

“For a Germany where life is good and we enjoy it.”

Imagine a UK PM being able to run with that.
The last was Harold McMillan "you've never had it so good"

Cailleach1 · 21/09/2017 16:15

www.independent.co.uk/news/northern-ireland-post-brexit-eu-single-market-customs-union-guy-verhofstadt-talks-negotiator-a7959306.html

Another Verhofstadt.
^Mr Verhofstadt, said he had spent Wednesday afternoon visiting the border area and said it was impossible to detect where the UK ends and the Irish Republic began.

“Certainly the cows especially couldn’t see it”, he said^

You can imagine cries of "Daisy, don't go into the top field. You're not allowed to leave the country"

BigChocFrenzy · 21/09/2017 16:21

The parties are commonly allocated colour, which are sometimes used to describe the collation combinations:

e.g. we may end up with a Jamaican = CDU /CSU, FDP, Green

because the SPD supporters are tired of being the junior partner all the time in the "Grand Coalition" with the CDU

However, negotiations will probably take until nearly Christmas as usual.
So Merkel will have little time for Brexit
Contrary to Tory hopes, she's taking a hard line on Brexit and Schultz would be even worse - he showed clear irritation with Uk special pleading when he was President of the EU Parliament

Westminstenders: The Maddest of May and Boris's Dare
MsHooliesCardigan · 21/09/2017 16:26

LH I'm just wishing I had a photograph of you Wink

LurkingHusband · 21/09/2017 16:31

Not sure if MNHQ allow this ?

teespring.com/the3million#pid=389&cid=100019&sid=front

Westminstenders: The Maddest of May and Boris's Dare
LurkingHusband · 21/09/2017 16:34

MsHooliesCardigan

LH I'm just wishing I had a photograph of you

Hmm Hopefully fun, rather than creepy ... (Charlies Angels nod coming up)

Westminstenders: The Maddest of May and Boris's Dare