Westminstenders: The Maddest of May and Boris's Dare

[RedToothBrush]

Boris Johnson just dared May to fire him.

That's what his little rant about £350 million buses is.

Meanwhile its been pointed out that HMRC literally are incapable of handling a no deal and can only cope with an EEA / EFTA deal with no tariffs.

And given how good and on time the government are with computer systems even in a best case scenario are extremely unlikely to crack it in time.

Which makes Hammond's talk of a civil contingence plan, look, well half arsed and lacking.

We also wouldn't have planes able to fly to Europe under a no deal as we would no longer be part of Open Skies. This could leave thousands stranded. But no biggie there.

Meanwhile if the Leave Alliance have things right, May is about to serve our one year notice on leaving the EEA making all these things a reality.

Which is less like shooting yourself in the head and more like shooting yourself in the head, chest, foot, arm, leg and face (for a second time), whilst being run over at the same time.

But hey, Boris Johnson has it sussed in his 10 point plan. Especially the point where he says Brexit will be a success.

If you call success ending democracy, becoming a dictatorship, starving everyone, bankrupting the country and causing civil unrest.

Rule Britannia.

"Many influential people in Germany

• whose influence Brexiters are heaily relying on for a deal -

think the UK is bluffing and that Brexit will never happen"

German news do not (or very rarely) report on Brexit. It is not a topic that is of acute concern to the public. Brexit simply doesn't feature in the public consciousness in Germany. The media and the public simply don't give Brexit much thought. It's a non event as far as public discourse is concerned.

"The German view, which maybe logical surprises me, because they know from their own history that civilised, cultured countries can do irrational and stupid things."
I agree.

BigChocFrenzy When the reality sinks in, on both sides, expect a massive crash and bitter recriminations

Unfortunately I don't think so. Someone posted on one of these threads many many threads ago about the psychology of perception, justifying decisions and not acknowledging mistakes and re-assessing when facts change/emerge.

A bit like when watching a rugby or football game: you always notice the infractions of the other team and overlook those of your team and think the referee is doing a good job (if your side is winning) or an awful job (if your side is losing).

So in the case of Brexit, any failure will be blamed on the "unreasonable" EU who won't let us eat our cake and have it and those nasty Remoaners who have talked down the country don't think that the Empire still exists

Why sort out a housing crisis when its lining the pockets of private landlords?

I agree pretty

Nick Robinson‏*@bbcnickrobinson*

Worth remembering that Cabinet Brexit split is about transitional deal. Scarcely begun discussing new permanent relationship with EU

The Poll tax

from memory was very much Thatchers pet project. For those who weren't there, the idea was that by forcing everyone to pay for council services, rather than just householders, then "loony left" councils would be exposed to the wrath of the taxpayer. The narrative being that they were taking money from the poor homeowners, and spending it on the indolent, feckless non-homeowners.

And, as then, so now, no-one could speak truth to power and say "er, Maggie, this poll tax, or "community charge" thing ... it's a bit shit isn't it ?".

I had just graduated when the poll tax came in. I predicted, correctly, it would fail before 3 years. Based on the fact - as true now as then - that moving from a system which taxed houses (not famous for moving around too much) to a system which taxed people (who have a nasty habit of moving all the time) was doomed to failure. Or, to be more correct: until such time as we have a system capable of dealing with peoples daily movements with 99.99999% accuracy.

(See also: Universal Credit)

German news do not (or very rarely) report on Brexit. It is not a topic that is of acute concern to the public. Brexit simply doesn't feature in the public consciousness in Germany. The media and the public simply don't give Brexit much thought. It's a non event as far as public discourse is concerned.

See also: France; Italy; Spain ...

about the psychology of perception
yes, andthe politics of perception.
This is a good thread on it:

@DuncanWeldon
Actual, outright, open lying about evidence suddenly seems "ok behaviour" for politicians. And broadcasters struggle with that.

Why sort out a housing crisis when its lining the pockets of private landlords
And they consist of the tory demographic.
Council housing has been replaced with subsidised incomes for 'leaver' landlords.
They're not going to like what's coming down the line, either.

The reason I brought up the poll tax, was that labour didn't oppose it.

But it still felled the tories.

But politicians are expected to lie - and the law explicitly allows it

That was why the crowd-funded legal case against Liar Carmichael failed, even though he admitted lying during the election campaign. And he's a supposedly ethical LibDem and not one of those lying toe rags Tories At least the court didn't award him costs

Thanks,pretttybird I learnt something new today:
www.heraldscotland.com/news/14142167.Carmichael_the_Liar__he_hasn_t_suffered_reputational_damage__he_s_suffered_reputational_obliteration/

'Politicians are expected to lie'

Why is this?

Because we have allowed it and accepted it and not punished those who have in one way or another.

This includes at local level, where many politicians spring from.

Liars are rewarded and whistleblowers punished.

There is a solution to this, which I think will come eventually. Not pretty.

Hypernormalisation is a good if bloody depressing watch...

And they consist of the tory demographic.

a shrinking band.

I was amused recently to see a post somewhere in my facebook, which was a letter from a Tory to his local party. It highlighted that unless the Tories really got their act together, so the upcoming generation could buy their own homes, and feel affluent enough to have families then there will be no more Tories to replace the ones dying at the other end.

Pendulums, balance, stasis and flux ...

Actual, outright, open lying about evidence suddenly seems "ok behaviour" for politicians. And broadcasters struggle with that.

It struck me, when Boris made his latest reference to the infamous £350m, that he is very much trying to imitate the Trump tactic of just lieing outright and then ignoring all corrections. He knows that once people hear the thing they want to hear, then getting them to believe something else is near to impossible. Even if the first piece of information is an outright lie and the second is cold, hard, proven fact.

Boris is a big Trump and Bannon fan and very much attempting to work from the same playbook. It is interesting to watch. I can't see it working for him as he has too much history. His populist moment has passed some time ago for him to ride the tide. However, it does serve to muddy the waters and distract from the real issues as we are getting dragged back to discussing the bus over and over.

Bucks Fizz have let themselves go

😂

New activate slogan;

The other thing which makes the lies and fake news such a good tactic is that there is no good way of dealing with them. If you ignore it they grow and spread. If you seek out and counter everyone of them you have the ONS spending their time writing letters about made up figures on busses rather then actually addressing the current issues of brexit. We all ending expending our energy fire fighting lies rather then moving forward with solving the real problems. In that respect as far as the extreme end of the Leaver spectrum are concerned it doesn't matter to them whether their lies are ignored or disputed. Either way it hinders the remain and soft brexit causes.

'Politicians are expected to lie

Isn't the lie thing, case law on manifestos?
Manifestos don't have to be truthful, and hasn't that precedent been applied to referendum 'promises'.

Watching the EMA working party on Anti Microbial Resistance (AMR). There is discussion of AMR standards and measures in EU trade agreements.

There goes the trade agreement. Standards to protect health. Despotic EU concerned with AMR.

www.ema.europa.eu/ema/index.jsp?curl=pages/news_and_events/events/2017/09/event_detail_001506.jsp&mid=WC0b01ac058004d5c3

If you press 'Multimedia' tab, it is live at the moment.

Isn't the lie thing, case law on manifestos? Manifestos don't have to be truthful, and hasn't that precedent been applied to referendum 'promises'.

Parliament is supreme, and cannot be compelled by any court. Anyone who thought otherwise is a little thick.

Anyone who thought otherwise is a little thick.
Or believes in the separation of powers.

LH I know what I don't know. Or some of it.
There goes the trade agreement. Standards to protect health. Despotic EU concerned with AMR.

Or believes in the separation of powers.

Separation of powers or not, parliament is supreme. It cannot be compelled to do anything by any court. Centuries of precedent, right up to Sinn Fein trying to get a court to force parliament to accept MPs without taking the oath.