Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: The Maddest of May and Boris's Dare

997 replies

RedToothBrush · 16/09/2017 22:43

Boris Johnson just dared May to fire him.

That's what his little rant about £350 million buses is.

Meanwhile its been pointed out that HMRC literally are incapable of handling a no deal and can only cope with an EEA / EFTA deal with no tariffs.

And given how good and on time the government are with computer systems even in a best case scenario are extremely unlikely to crack it in time.

Which makes Hammond's talk of a civil contingence plan, look, well half arsed and lacking.

We also wouldn't have planes able to fly to Europe under a no deal as we would no longer be part of Open Skies. This could leave thousands stranded. But no biggie there.

Meanwhile if the Leave Alliance have things right, May is about to serve our one year notice on leaving the EEA making all these things a reality.

Which is less like shooting yourself in the head and more like shooting yourself in the head, chest, foot, arm, leg and face (for a second time), whilst being run over at the same time.

But hey, Boris Johnson has it sussed in his 10 point plan. Especially the point where he says Brexit will be a success.

If you call success ending democracy, becoming a dictatorship, starving everyone, bankrupting the country and causing civil unrest.

Rule Britannia.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
40
lalalonglegs · 18/09/2017 20:01

True, Hashi, but that shouldn't stop them voting against this madness.

Gumpendorf · 18/09/2017 20:02

You mean Cummings doesn't like reality and scrutiny getting in the way of a good idea. Right?

Not when the idea is his Wink

It's an extension of 'it's the will of the people', and however daft the idea and whatever you say the consequences will be, we are going to do this.... my way.

Icantreachthepretzels · 18/09/2017 20:06

Does tories jumping ship mean resignations followed by by elections? I bet they've been threatened with pain of death not to do that.

woman11017 · 18/09/2017 20:19

Today, a breakdown in the negotiations and the absence of a deal in the end appear increasingly likely. Fabian Zuleeg suggests three steps the EU could take, given this risk:

^To ease the negotiations, the EU should help the UK by fully defining the different scenarios and options. The UK, because of its internal divisions, is no longer able to come up with coherent positions.
To protect itself from a potential blame game, the EU should keep the moral high ground. The most effective way is to make a grand gesture: to unilaterally guarantee the rights of UK citizens currently residing in the EU^
.
Finally, the EU must seriously prepare for the no deal scenario. There must be contingency planning to minimise the impact on the EU27 if the UK chooses to throw itself over the cliff edge
.
www.epc.eu/pub_details.php?cat_id=3&pub_id=7917

Theworldisfullofidiots · 18/09/2017 20:28

I honestly don't think they know what to do. There is no plan and when there is no plan people tend to stay with what they know I.e. Do nothing.
Also May has form for ploughing on regardless even when she is told something is a bad idea. She is not good at listening to advice unless those advisors are telling her what she wants to hear.

RedToothBrush · 18/09/2017 20:29

10/ From political perspective Boris/MG approach gives you a shot of saving your skins, backing Hammond/DD = you're seat/gvt in dire danger

Choose Boris / MG approach and the young will never vote Tory.

Take the Hammond / DD approach and the young will never vote Tory.

The Brexit paradox.

OP posts:
HashiAsLarry · 18/09/2017 20:32

lala thats the extent I'll go on fairness to them Wink. But its also how May gets away with whipping this stuff. The rosette and their arses are more important to them than doing what's right. They're not the party of moral stances.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2017 20:32

Richard North commented:

"It leads to an absurd position where Robbins is head of the Brexit delegation, and Davis is chief negotiator.
Despite his title, Davis is no longer in charge of the negotiations"

< DD's now just the frontman; Robbins is reporting directly to May.
DD will appear at the opening & closing of the monthly meetings, then go off for another boozing session - he allegedly pestered Diane Abbott when pissed - and sleep off the bender >

mathanxiety · 18/09/2017 20:56

Assuming our visitor is still around. ... I note along with the dig at Tony Blair on FOM that he seems to have completely forgotten that it was the UK, doing the bidding of the US State Department, that pushed for the rapid expansion eastwards, the better to annoy the Russian Federation.

Whatever impediments there may be in place to limit Australian etc immigration are completely up to the government on Westminster, just as Germany is free to welcome Turks, Syrians, and anyone else Germany wants to welcome. Australian immigration could easily be accomplished within the EU.

And the greater political union coming as a surprise? You think it was some huge bait and switch? Your problem is that you weren't paying attention back in the 60s when all of this was discussed at length, in the context of British and Irish noises about joining the EEC. At that time, Irish neutrality was a sticking point because the political entity that was envisioned was to have had a certain geopolitical pov and possibly co-operation in military matters too.

It very much seems as if some Leavers had assumptions about the EU that were as wrong as they could be, yet they complain about being called stupid.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2017 21:41

I voted to join the Common Market, knowing that the aim was an ever closer union within Europe

and in my case, actually hoping for a United States of Europe however many decades in the future

  • I decided our politicians then were too incompetent at running the country

Wow, now I'd welcome the PM and cabinet of that time, either Tory or Labour

Peregrina · 18/09/2017 21:46

knowing that the aim was an ever closer union within Europe

I learnt this is school back in the 1960s!

Badders08 · 18/09/2017 21:47

Yep
Me too

BiglyBadgers · 18/09/2017 22:12

Well, I wasn't even born in the '60s. I just woke up in the '80s and bam! We are part of an EU superstate. Nobody asked my view while I was an egg in my mother's ovary. I demand a say! I also demand a vote on the formation of the country of England and the decision to make London the capital rather than Winchester, not to mention a full review of the dissolution of the monasteries.

Badders08 · 18/09/2017 22:13

🤣

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2017 22:19

Voting without bothering to properly examine the options on offer
is like gulping down food without bothering to chew

The likely consequences of such impulsive haste are pain, regret and explosion

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2017 22:34

(paywall) Off the Cliff < wow, SCATHING about BJ >

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/off-the-cliff-ds395tp5k

Boris Johnson is an ambitious man,
and it is reasonable that his lengthy intervention into Brexit negotiations this past weekend should have been regarded as a challenge to the prime minister’s authority.

Yet the Conservative Party’s internal soap opera, however diverting,
is of less importance than Britain’s future.

Mr Johnson is the holder of one of the great offices of state.

Unlike the government of which he is a part,
the foreign secretary has now expressed a clear vision not just of how Brexit negotiations should progress,
but also of the future of Britain thereafter.

Being not overburdened with such things at present,
the British public would be wise to consider it in detail.

Mr Johnson’s intention is not to heal a divided nation.
On the contrary, he is at pains to remind those who mourn Britain’s decision to leave the European Union that their best option is to lump it. Hmm

Indeed, he goes further, suggesting that
“young people with the 12 stars lipsticked on their faces” are “beginning to have genuinely split allegiances”.

He is also unequivocal that Brexit must involve leaving both the single market and the customs union.
A desire not to do so, he writes,
“betrays a dismal lack of confidence in this country”.

This is poor stuff.
Just under half of the country wished to remain in the EU.
Quite a few of them still do.

Mr Johnson’s intimation of treason shows a marked change in a politician who used to pride himself, above all, on his likeability.

The foreign secretary himself was also quite recently a fan of remaining within the single market.
He knows full well that those who wish to preserve existing opportunities for British businesses are no less patriotic than those who wish to shut them off.

He also knows that anything less than the “frictionless trade” of which ministers still often speak will come with a cost,
and that no amount of rhetoric about “a glorious future” will help to pay it._

Mr Johnson insists that Britain should not make payments in exchange for access to the single market in the future.
David Davis, the Brexit secretary, has previously agreed with the chancellor that such payments could, in fact, be necessary.

He was also deeply unwise to resurrect the notion that Brexit could lead to Britain enjoying an extra £350 million a week,
much of which could be spent on the NHS.
Yesterday, Sir David Norgrove, the chairman of the UK Statistics Authority,
wrote to the foreign secretary to express “surprise and disappointment” that he had done so.

Since it was emblazoned on to a bus during the referendum,
the figure has become a byword for political mendacity, muddling net and gross contributions,
and being made up largely of money that either never leaves, comes back, or would still have to go anyway.

Mr Johnson cannot have been unaware of any of this.
It does not reflect well on him that he cared so little.
< ouch>

Few could disagree with Mr Johnson’s wish for stronger trade ties with Commonwealth nations,
but he neglects to mention that
few nations will wish to sign British trade deals without some indication of our future relationship with the EU.

He insists that “our system of standards will remain absolutely flush with the rest of the EU”
but also that Britain will take a lead on global deregulation.

Normally when Mr Johnson wishes to express ideas so mutually incompatible he at least does so in two separate articles rather than one Grin

The best thing one can say about the foreign secretary’s plan for Brexit is that at least he has one.

Theresa May is expected to outline her own when she speaks this week in Florence,

and the fact that Mr Johnson has had this opportunity says much about the vacuum she has allowed to develop.

Yet his Brexit is so hard as to be hardly different from the “cliff-edge” that many fear should negotiations collapse.

This is not a sensible vision for Britain’s future.
It may well be that he is more concerned about his own.

Badders08 · 18/09/2017 22:42

Not bloody scathing enough

RedToothBrush · 18/09/2017 23:06

www.thesun.co.uk/news/4493463/boris-johnson-believes-brexit-negotiations-will-fail-and-end-up-with-theresa-may-being-humiliated/
Boris Johnson believes Brexit negotiations will fail and end up with Theresa May being humiliated
The Foreign Secretary has told friends that it’s vital the government prepares to walk away from the stalled talks as the EU will not give the UK any big concessions

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 18/09/2017 23:14

Will Black‏*@WillBlackWriter*

Evan Davis to Tory: Do you ever think you guys have screwed this up? Why invoke Art50 if you don't know where it''ll take you?
#Newsnight

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 19/09/2017 03:47

Does anyone else see parallels between the immigration nightmares and the recent case from Utah of the arrest and browbeating of the nurse Alex Wubbels?

woman11017 · 19/09/2017 06:42

Embarrassing and shameful image this island has in the EU:

^Reino Unido expulsa milhares de cidadãos europeus com o Brexit
País bate recordes na deportação de imigrantes, atingindo cerca de cinco mil pessoas^.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.cmjornal.pt/cm-ao-minuto/detalhe/reino-unido-expulsa-milhares-de-cidadaos-europeus-com-o-brexit?utm_medium=Socialwww.cmjornal.pt/cm-ao-minuto/detalhe/reino-unido-expulsa-milhares-de-cidadaos-europeus-com-o-brexit" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.cmjornal.pt/cm-ao-minuto/detalhe/reino-unido-expulsa-milhares-de-cidadaos-europeus-com-o-brexit?utm_medium=Socialwww.cmjornal.pt/cm-ao-minuto/detalhe/reino-unido-expulsa-milhares-de-cidadaos-europeus-com-o-brexit

Yes math many parallels with US and Turkey Sad
DACA, institutional lying, undermining of judiciary, institutional sexism; surge in racist attacks.

But the US has:
organised and sustained resistance; flash protests to ICE swoops; raging TV satirists exposing truth to power; documenting the inequity of the power grab.

Letting 1000s of EU neighbour/citizens be expelled is an indictment on us all in Britain.

Brenda is just a constitutional monarch, but you'd think she could do more than wear a hat to defend rule of law.

Historical parallels are blatant.

Britain is rich pickings for nasty ultra conservative power grab.

And to add insult to injury, the labour leadership is colluding through cock up or conspiracy.

We are being asked to lobby the labour conference to fight for remain. When the labour demographic is young and remain, labour is still hanging on to an obsolete policy which was anti the old EEC.

It's no longer just an economic union, that's the point, Jezza.

frumpety · 19/09/2017 06:47

Did anyone hear BJ's Father talking about him on radio 4 yesterday ? He basically said that BJ should have more influence in the Brexit negotiations because it was because of his sons campaigning that the Leave vote won . I was driving around trying to figure out whether the Father hates or loves his son ?

woman11017 · 19/09/2017 06:57

BJ's father and Cameron and Sam's interventions prove that toffs are selfish, racist, halfwits who should never be allowed within several thousand miles of power.

Which is why, as pointed out up thread, we had the EU; to mitigate the learning difficulties of the ruling aristocracy we have been putting up with for the last 500 years.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/18/peak-injustice-world-without-borders-super-rich-buying-citizenship-migration?CMP=twt_gu
What we were posting 14 months ago^

frumpety · 19/09/2017 07:08

I think it was the fact that he was reminding the country , that without BJ stepping into the arena during the leave campaign , the result may have been different . So placing the blame for it squarely at his feet . I personally do not think that BJ is solely to blame for the fiasco .

woman11017 · 19/09/2017 07:11

I personally do not think that BJ is solely to blame for the fiasco
Nous sommes tous coupable.
Aristocracy and its fellow travellers, more than anyone.