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Brexit

Westminstenders: The beginning of the dictatorship and the end of Boris?

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/09/2017 10:55

Brexit is being fought in the UK media and parliament on the premise that the EU is being difficult and obstructive.

The fallacy can not be understated.

What the UK fails to understand is the right of the EU to put their own interests before the UKs. It doesn't under that our demands cannot be met even if the EU wanted to for practical and legal reasons - not political ones because our understanding of the situation and law is so poor.

The net result is the slippage of the next phase of Brexit talks being pushed to Christmas by the EU due to lack of progress by the UK. Barnier is open to more regular and intense talks but this is bad news for the UK with the a50 clock ticking.

The main stumbling block is NI a with Barnier warning not to use the border as a way to test EU resolve. Brexit always about the NI border. The UK have never provided a solution to the EU that does not produce a hard border. The idea being pushed by the UK will create one despite claiming it won't. The reality is the only viable solutions are either staying in the single market and customs union or NI being granted special status and being different to the rest of the country. The former is opposed by the government, the later opposed by the DUP.

The DUP are getting a taste of their own medicine. They have been warned that Assembly Members might have pay frozen and if they don't reform Stormont they won't get their Billion Pound Booty. Plus Ian Paisley Jr just found a new scandal for the party.

May is trying to channel Venezuela by getting rid of democracy when it suits. The Great Repel Bill (aka as the Withdrawal Bill) faces it's challenge. The much feared Henry VIII in clause 9 are not only facing criticism from Remainers but also from the secretive crackpots of Tory Bastard Club (aka ERG). The TBC want hard cliff edge Brexit. May seems to support given her goodwill burning interference at the Home Office which seeks to discriminate against all foreigners and make them sign a register. The visa system and how it will attract much needed staff for the NHS makes the mind boggle.

The Repel Bill also could end the possibility of transition due to clause 6 which requires us to leave the ECJ. Given the May's ambition to make EU citizens display their stars in job applications this is totally unable to the EU. If it passes the chances of transition drop dramatically. Bye bye Smooth and Orderly.

Then there is the May-Bot paradox: the one were she gives a friendly speech to the EU and a nasty on to the Swivel Eyed Loon gathering. As if neither will be reported to the other audience.

On top of this May is attempting the Parliament Rigging Act as she has a 'majority Government'. Yep I know, this is the general election version of 'will of the people'. The Rigging Act seeks to stack parliamentary committees with Tory majorities so they can stop any bill they don't like getting anywhere need the main chamber this limiting the power of opposition to irrelevant. Sadly I think this one will get through due to maths of the HoC atm.

We shouldn't forget the role of the HoL though and the lack of a majority government (why do you think May is saying majority government? It's down to the Sewell convention and trying to make the case it applies when the argument is it doesn't for a minority government).

The other development is the rumours that Boris is for the boot. And Rees-Mogg might get a promotion.

OP posts:
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TheElementsSong · 11/09/2017 09:39

Politician's syllogism

  1. We must do something
  2. This is something
  3. Therefore, we must do this.
LurkingHusband · 11/09/2017 10:19

My car is designed now with no CD player so you Bluetooth music from your phone. It's impossible to change what you are listening to without faffing about with the phone and a stupid car touchscreen. It's really dangerous, that kind of design should be banned as mobile phones aren't to be used in cars.

Actually, you're supposed to use Siri, or Google Assistant by voice. This is 2017, not 1977.

(whether or not Siri, et al are up for the job is another matter. Generaly they're shite).

I have a very keen interest in technology and adaptations for disability. So have Google, Amazon, and particularly Apple as they race against the clock.

LurkingHusband · 11/09/2017 10:20

Definition of Brexit updated in the Oxford English Dictionary.

Westminstenders: The beginning of the dictatorship and the end of Boris?
EternalOptimistToo · 11/09/2017 10:38

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-eu-citizens-deportations-rise-uk-home-office-referendum-a7935266.html

Just in case anyone had a doubt that the governemnet is now after EU citizens to kick them out by any means.

One thing in the article stands out for me
It comes despite a significant drop in the total number of people being deported, suggesting the focus of the Home Office and its immigration enforcement units has shifted specifically towards immigrants from EU countries.
Charities say at least some of those being deported for reasons such as rough sleeping have been working in the UK for more than five years, which means they have a legal right to remain in the country permanently.
And Those working with migrants say rough sleepers are often taken into detention immediately, without the 30 days they are supposed to be given to leave the UK voluntarily. This restricts their access to legal representation.

The most worrying thing for me is the fact that all the focus is now on EU citizens. Because that is yet another sign that TM has no intention at all to let EU citizens already established here to live in this country.

I am now at the point that I do not think I will be able to stay in the uk after the next 5~6 years at best (unless there is a major turnaround), maybe not more than 18 months.

LurkingHusband · 11/09/2017 11:05

The most worrying thing for me is the fact that all the focus is now on EU citizens. Because that is yet another sign that TM has no intention at all to let EU citizens already established here to live in this country.

So what is the EU going to do ? It has to stand up and protect the rights of the citizens of the EU27, or risk becoming an expensive and embarrassing irrelevance.

I don't think there is any accident, or confusion, or incompetence here. It's a cynical, spiteful inhumane tactic by the UK government - personified by Theresa May - to dish out as much punishment and pressure on the EU as it can. And if it means that innocent people are the pawns ? Well, UK-GB has a long and glorious history of punishing the innocent to get to the guilty. Dresden.

QuentinSummers · 11/09/2017 12:36

Actually, you're supposed to use Siri, or Google Assistant by voice. This is 2017, not 1977.
Grrrr. I am very distrustful of giving Google more info than they need because of their marketing. Guess I am also turning into an old technophobe too....

LurkingHusband · 11/09/2017 13:37

I am very distrustful of giving Google more info than they need because of their marketing. Guess I am also turning into an old technophobe too....

Wait until your vision isn't so good, your hands not quite so steady, and your hearing **ed. Because at that point you either (a) retire from the world of mobile tech, or (b) discover all the assistive features that have been creeping into iOS, Android

Given that (b) is essential for the continued wealth-being of Apple and Google, I predict that is where we're going.

People like MrsLH with disabilities are ideal test cases ....

RedToothBrush · 11/09/2017 13:39

www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2017/09/11/how-may-turned-britain-into-a-surveillance-society
Big Brother state: How May's obsession with immigration turned Britain into a surveillance state

Jason Groves‏*@JasonGroves1*
Jeremy Corbyn tells @BBCWorldatOne it's 'open for discussion' whether UK should stay permanently in the EU's single market

Here's a map that gives you some food for thought.

Westminstenders: The beginning of the dictatorship and the end of Boris?
OP posts:
TheElementsSong · 11/09/2017 13:57

The most worrying thing for me is the fact that all the focus is now on EU citizens. Because that is yet another sign that TM has no intention at all to let EU citizens already established here to live in this country.

Now we know that can't be true, because many Leave voters have assured us repeatedly that this is not going to happen, it's just Remoaners fear-mongering, and, most importantly that's not what they (personally) voted for. Until, further on in the discussion, other Leavers start going on about the evils of immigration and how we need immigrants to leave so we can all get school places/ GP appointments/ lucrative jobs, without comment from their compatriots.

LurkingHusband · 11/09/2017 14:12

Now we know that can't be true, because many Leave voters have assured us repeatedly that this is not going to happen, it's just Remoaners fear-mongering, and, most importantly that's not what they (personally) voted for. Until, further on in the discussion, other Leavers start going on about the evils of immigration and how we need immigrants to leave so we can all get school places/ GP appointments/ lucrative jobs, without comment from their compatriots.

You're seeing history being rewritten.

We have always been at war with Oceana ....

TheElementsSong · 11/09/2017 14:16

You're seeing history being rewritten.

Like "Nobody ever said it would be easy or make us poorer..." Grin

LurkingHusband · 11/09/2017 14:24

Now you've got it !

Next step: enabling act.

woman9917 · 11/09/2017 14:25

Who gets to be surveilled when the so called immigrants have gone?

OlennasWimple · 11/09/2017 14:36

REmember woman, if you haven't got anything to hide you have nothing to be afraid of... Hmm

Thanks for another thread RTB

LurkingHusband · 11/09/2017 14:36

Who gets to be surveilled when the so called immigrants have gone?

Be a shame to let all that legislation, technology and training go to waste, eh ?

We've all seen Brazil ?

woman9917 · 11/09/2017 14:40

Ha ha LH knew we'd get back to that Brazil: my claim to fame his
having lunch with James Achieson the costume designer for that; he made De Niro's plumber's outfit, and all those stunning hats.

lalalonglegs · 11/09/2017 14:45

There are clearly a few Terry Gilliam fans joining the dots - someone was playing the tune "Brazil" on the trombone on the march on Saturday Wink.

woman9917 · 11/09/2017 14:45

Ideas for new President Mogg crimes for surveillance by schools, doctors and public service workers:
encouraging feminism ( clause 28 update);
unregulated pregnancy;
being a homeless survivor of domestic abuse < oh wait, that is already a crime>;
waving the wrong flag.

woman9917 · 11/09/2017 14:51

Don't know if this has been posted, but I suspect Corbyn and co are a bit ahead of Green on this one, Sad

Westminstenders: The beginning of the dictatorship and the end of Boris?
LurkingHusband · 11/09/2017 14:56

someone was playing the tune "Brazil" on the trombone on the march on Saturday

Was this between 12:30 @ Green Park, and 1:30 at Parliament Square ???

If so you must have been within a trombone slide of MrsLH and I ...

That trombone is probably our take home memory Smile

Peregrina · 11/09/2017 15:06

I must have been near some of you on Saturday's march, because we seem to have seen some of the same slogans.
I keep looking at the pictures posted but haven't identified myself yet. I had my euro hat on.

Westminstenders: The beginning of the dictatorship and the end of Boris?
EternalOptimistToo · 11/09/2017 15:17

I had an interesting discussion with DH not long ago.

Theyve had some overseas customers visiting, some of who need a visa and a letter of invite to be able to come over.
At work, people are getting increasingly worried that those people are coming thanks to the letter of the company BUT they don't know exactely when they are arriving and leaving (and what they are doing before and/or after the visit). It's all about 'what if they are doing something wrong and someone finds out they came thanks to us'.
No one seem to realise that this sort of thinking comes from the fact that surveillance of immigrants has been handed over to the public and companies (see the latest one about MP passing down information to the HO or the need of listing all foreigners in a company and check them over etc etc) And that it is scary to think that those people now think it's their responsibility so it's now up to them to somehow monitor what those visitors do when they are in the uk.
And no one sees any issue with that or the dangers that can come with it.

EternalOptimistToo · 11/09/2017 15:18

Lovely hat btw!

LurkingHusband · 11/09/2017 15:19

MrsLH and I went undercover Smile

Rather appropriately there were 2 long downhill stretches towards Westminster.

Regardless of numbers, it was heartening to see so many youngsters. Can't speak for anyone else, but my first sight of policemen was just before Downing St. I saw more kids than cops, which was a proud feeling. There's something terribly wrong with the world that it's in a demonstration against your own government that you feel most proud of being British.

Is it too tinfoil hat to have noticed that unlike the March march (Major Major) only half the road was blocked off ? If a nutter in a car had decided to hit that march, I suspect there would be less upset than satisfaction in certain parts of government.

Ironically, despite living 30 years in London, Saturday was the first time I ever stopped at Dollis Hill (due to the Met Line work). But then I've never been to Madame Tussauds either Hmm ...

Peregrina · 11/09/2017 15:35

There were a lot fewer Police about this time than in March. I suppose that then the Policeman had been killed, so they were still on high alert.

I was asked why I was going on the march, and whether my energies could be spent better elsewhere. I think it's important to demonstrate - it gives the lie to Theresa May's statement that she senses the country is behind her when 50,000 or 100,000 gather to show they are not. Of course this doesn't preclude other activities.

Farage, by contrast, only managed to rustle up a couple of hundred last time he promised to organise a march.

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