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Brexit

Westminstenders: The beginning of the dictatorship and the end of Boris?

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/09/2017 10:55

Brexit is being fought in the UK media and parliament on the premise that the EU is being difficult and obstructive.

The fallacy can not be understated.

What the UK fails to understand is the right of the EU to put their own interests before the UKs. It doesn't under that our demands cannot be met even if the EU wanted to for practical and legal reasons - not political ones because our understanding of the situation and law is so poor.

The net result is the slippage of the next phase of Brexit talks being pushed to Christmas by the EU due to lack of progress by the UK. Barnier is open to more regular and intense talks but this is bad news for the UK with the a50 clock ticking.

The main stumbling block is NI a with Barnier warning not to use the border as a way to test EU resolve. Brexit always about the NI border. The UK have never provided a solution to the EU that does not produce a hard border. The idea being pushed by the UK will create one despite claiming it won't. The reality is the only viable solutions are either staying in the single market and customs union or NI being granted special status and being different to the rest of the country. The former is opposed by the government, the later opposed by the DUP.

The DUP are getting a taste of their own medicine. They have been warned that Assembly Members might have pay frozen and if they don't reform Stormont they won't get their Billion Pound Booty. Plus Ian Paisley Jr just found a new scandal for the party.

May is trying to channel Venezuela by getting rid of democracy when it suits. The Great Repel Bill (aka as the Withdrawal Bill) faces it's challenge. The much feared Henry VIII in clause 9 are not only facing criticism from Remainers but also from the secretive crackpots of Tory Bastard Club (aka ERG). The TBC want hard cliff edge Brexit. May seems to support given her goodwill burning interference at the Home Office which seeks to discriminate against all foreigners and make them sign a register. The visa system and how it will attract much needed staff for the NHS makes the mind boggle.

The Repel Bill also could end the possibility of transition due to clause 6 which requires us to leave the ECJ. Given the May's ambition to make EU citizens display their stars in job applications this is totally unable to the EU. If it passes the chances of transition drop dramatically. Bye bye Smooth and Orderly.

Then there is the May-Bot paradox: the one were she gives a friendly speech to the EU and a nasty on to the Swivel Eyed Loon gathering. As if neither will be reported to the other audience.

On top of this May is attempting the Parliament Rigging Act as she has a 'majority Government'. Yep I know, this is the general election version of 'will of the people'. The Rigging Act seeks to stack parliamentary committees with Tory majorities so they can stop any bill they don't like getting anywhere need the main chamber this limiting the power of opposition to irrelevant. Sadly I think this one will get through due to maths of the HoC atm.

We shouldn't forget the role of the HoL though and the lack of a majority government (why do you think May is saying majority government? It's down to the Sewell convention and trying to make the case it applies when the argument is it doesn't for a minority government).

The other development is the rumours that Boris is for the boot. And Rees-Mogg might get a promotion.

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LurkingHusband · 14/09/2017 10:15

Speaking of interviews, did anyone catch R4 at 9 today ?

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0939wgl

Patrick Wright meets the philosopher Sir Roger Scruton, who argues that the EU has encroached on the fundamentals of Englishness: the landscape, and the common law.

So the narrative of "plucky old Blighty" against the "nasty EU" is ratcheted up further.

I have previously suggested that it's entirely possible that post-Brexit Britain will simply outlaw, or refuse to recognise dual citizenship with EU countries.

Rhetoric like that above makes it inevitable.

LurkingHusband · 14/09/2017 10:16

Head of John Lewis was not impressed with Brexit.

woman11017 · 14/09/2017 10:18

@starbie99
Downing Street promises Boris higher-profile Brexit role, but only after May's big Brexit speech on September 22.

@jameschappers 12m12 minutes ago
James Chapman Retweeted susannah tarbush
Brace brace #Mogglodytes #TheDemocrats

Good news, Chappers is back, bad news is I need to clear space for rice, beans and water to get through the return of the nasty piece of work, and the crash out next week.

post-Brexit Britain will simply outlaw, or refuse to recognise dual citizenship with EU countries.

It's bad enough being deported, but not being able to be deported is much worse.

prettybird · 14/09/2017 10:23

So it's about the need to protect "Englishness" and English Common Law Hmm

Where does Scotland, with its own legal system, fit in that Little England attitude? Confused

LurkingHusband · 14/09/2017 10:24

Been on a march, recently ? Guess who's got your picture ....

www.theregister.co.uk/2017/09/13/cops_use_of_biometric_images_has_gone_far_beyond_using_them_for_custody_purposes/

A little plumbing between Londonwide CCTV, Oyster logs, and GCHQ, and you'd pretty much have a mailing list of everyone who has publicly dissed "the will of the people".

I suspect that list will prove very useful as we go forward.

RedToothBrush · 14/09/2017 10:26

Robert Peston

The measure of public sector disenchantment with this government is that a taxman, of all people, has sent me his payslips since 2010 - to prove how much worse off he and his colleagues have become since the advent of austerity and the pay restraint imposed on servants of the state.

Now to be clear he is pretty well paid by most standards, on a gross salary of £40,194. But the thing is that his pay was £39,643 in the summer of 2010. And after tax and national insurance, he took home £2,434.02 a month seven years ago, which is more than his current net pay of £2,405.02.

During this period, prices including housing costs (CPIH) have risen by just under 25%.

It is not often any of us weep for the taxman. But he - like hundreds of thousands of public sector workers - has endured a squeeze on living standards without modern precedent.

The point is that for the huge numbers of public servants in the middle of their careers, the opportunities to earn more from promotion are limited.

That is why so many of them were unimpressed by Theresa May's claim that a typical police officer who joined the force in 2010 would be 32% better off today after tax - because this refers to someone right at the start of their career who has enjoyed seven years' worth of annual progression pay increments.

It is not a great advert for working in vital public-sector jobs that once spurs have been earned, and salary has risen to make it affordable to have a family, what lies beyond is years of grinding falls in living standards.

This is not great for the popularity of May's Tory party.

But more importantly it is a disaster for the ability of our public services to recruit and retain the brightest and best.

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LurkingHusband · 14/09/2017 10:31

But more importantly it is a disaster for the ability of our public services to recruit and retain the brightest and best.

(feeling particularly grumpy himself)

fuck it. Let idiots be served by idiots.

Peregrina · 14/09/2017 10:44

Let idiots be served by idiots.

But isn't that part of the problem with the dysfunctional Home Office - I assume that they can't get the better quality recruits, coupled with a hostile environment promoted by the previous Home Secretary.

I don't know if it's the case still, but the Inland Revenue used to have slightly higher pay scales than the rest of the Civil Service.

RedToothBrush · 14/09/2017 10:53

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3033332-To-accept-tenants-with-DLA?trending=1

How to be depressed. This thread.

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Motheroffourdragons · 14/09/2017 10:55

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

LurkingHusband · 14/09/2017 10:58

Following on from my theory about the pecking order of pay rises, anyone want to help spread a new phrase ?

Custodibus remunerator?

(surely appeal to JRM or BoJo)

EternalOptimistToo · 14/09/2017 11:04

Post-Brexit Britain will simply outlaw, or refuse to recognise dual citizenship with EU countries.

Who said that?? Shock and very worried.

EternalOptimistToo · 14/09/2017 11:06

LH that is so so scary.
But not far from what I thought when TM was talking about keeping a record of all emails, phone calls etc etc 'just in case they coud be needed for terrorism'
That idea has stopped me from posting anything too engaged on FB in the past.
It's getting worse TBH.

Motheroffourdragons · 14/09/2017 11:14

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

woman11017 · 14/09/2017 11:14

@jameschappers 1h
Why won't @DExEUgov publish its analysis of impact of hard Brexit on 50+ sectors? Could it be concerned it might put voters off whole idea?

How can we get these released, James? This is scandalous. Weren't they commissioned using public money?

Yes they were. As I understand it @DExEUgov is claiming they are exempt from FOI Act. @JolyonMaugham may have views on taking forward

@JolyonMaugham
Replying to @jameschappers @DotLepkowska and 2 others
I am taking legal advice on this very point from perhaps the leading specialist in the country. I hope we can act.

LurkingHusband · 14/09/2017 11:14

Post-Brexit Britain will simply outlaw, or refuse to recognise dual citizenship with EU countries.

I said that. I stand by it, and I can see it happening. The seeds have been sown.

One thing that Leavers actively want , is an asymmetric Brexit. In fact, for there to be any remote possibility of the Great British Public accepting the privations of Brexit, it will have to be very clear that it's hurting the EU more.

The cheapest, easiest and most effective way to do that is to use the UK resident EU citizens as proxy pawns. Removing (or refusing to recognise) an EU citizenship held by a UK citizen is a good start. It guarantees that any advantage to being an EU citizen in the UK is denied to UK citizens.

No one will cry. After all, we all need to get behind Brexit now, remember ?

It won't happen in one go, but a series of incremental measures that will add up to it.

We are already seeing EU nationals being excluded and isolated. SO rather than being alarmist, there's a danger I'm being understated.

LurkingHusband · 14/09/2017 11:15

Why won't @DExEUgov publish its analysis of impact of hard Brexit on 50+ sectors? Could it be concerned it might put voters off whole idea?

I'd be worried if they were published. It could mean that the danger of an election has passed.

HashiAsLarry · 14/09/2017 11:16

They're gonna have a hard time outlawing dual nationality and keeping the gfa going.

LurkingHusband · 14/09/2017 11:19

They're gonna have a hard time outlawing dual nationality and keeping the gfa going.

What makes you think they want to keep the GFA ? Certainly nothing I have seen in the past 12 months would support that claim ...

Peregrina · 14/09/2017 11:20

I would certainly be prepared to crowdfund something to get Maugham to be able to take legal action to get the 50 impact analysis reports published.

LurkingHusband · 14/09/2017 11:21

They're gonna have a hard time outlawing dual nationality and keeping the gfa going.

Also, post Brexit, you can discriminate between EU nationals. So Irish=good+dual citizens; French,German,Spanish=bad-no dual citizenship.

woman11017 · 14/09/2017 11:21

@itvnews
This is what happened when @neilconneryitv tried to ask @LiamFox about connections between British arms sales and Yemen's brutal civil war

Good stuff.

Isn't it arms fair week?

Peregrina · 14/09/2017 11:25

I thought that many of the other EU countries didn't allow dual citizenship anyway? So some people who have married a UK citizen have naturalised but had to give up their original citizenship. I think that applied to the Dutch woman who was in the news a few months back. I knew a Belgian at work who had had to reliquish her Belgian citizenship when taking up UK citizenship, but that was a few years ago.

HashiAsLarry · 14/09/2017 11:25

Haha lh I know they dont card about the gfa. But we've been assured by leavers that it would stay in tact 😂

LurkingHusband · 14/09/2017 11:37

I thought that many of the other EU countries didn't allow dual citizenship anyway?

So job half done.

I know they dont card about the gfa. But we've been assured by leavers that it would stay intact

Leavers have assured us of lots of things that turned out to be bollocks. EEA anyone ?