Westminstenders: Boom. The Brexit Backlash starts to hit.

[RedToothBrush]

So it turns out that immigration figures that stated students overstayed were wrong. The home office knew this. And sat on it. Since 2015. Under Theresa.

That smells a bit doesn't it?

Imagine it: "Let's do lunch Paul. I'll cover up and give you a nice immigration story for your front page. In return, crown me PM."

Then tonight BOOM. Labour look like they have made a move. Soft very swishy Brexit. Even less brexity than the Beano Brexit that the Tories have been trying to announce on the quiet over the summer whilst Brexiteers are on holiday.

amp.theguardian.com/global/2017/aug/26/labour-calls-for-lengthy-transitional-period-post-brexit
Labour makes dramatic shift on Brexit and single market
Party opens clear divide with Tories, with support for free movement and paying into EU budgets for up to four years

Labour is to announce a dramatic policy shift by backing continued membership of the EU single market beyond March 2019, when Britain leaves the EU, establishing a clear dividing line with the Tories on Brexit for the first time.

In a move that positions it decisively as the party of “soft Brexit”, Labour will support full participation in the single market and customs union during a lengthy “transitional period” that it believes could last between two and four years after the day of departure, it is to announce on Sunday.

This will mean that under a Labour government the UK would continue to abide by the EU’s free movement rules, accept the jurisdiction of the European court of justice on trade and economic issues, and pay into the EU budget for a period of years after Brexit, in the hope of lessening the shock of leaving to the UK economy. In a further move that will delight many pro-EU Labour backers, Jeremy Corbyn’s party will also leave open the option of the UK remaining a member of the customs union and single market for good, beyond the end of the transitional period.

Why would Labour suddenly do this? It's not just because of the youth vote. What about their leave voters?

Faisal Islam on the subject:
2. On Labour Leavers is very very interesting and involves quite the psephological judgement re the election....
...the calculation appears to be that Labour Leave voters had the chance to vote for Theresa May's brand of Brexit, and bar 5 seats, said No
Was that because Lableave voters were already signalled "hard Brexit"? Or many millions such voters much more concerned about other things?

Have Labour been polling their voters on this?

Theresa has also apparently set her sell by date: Friday 30th August 2019.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/theresa-sets-date-shell-quit-11061894.amp
Theresa May sets date she'll quit as Prime Minister - giving herself time to see Britain through Brexit

The longer the transition and the squishier it gets, the more the more you wonder.

Mr Barnier will enjoy his coffee and newspapers tomorrow as he prepares for round two of Brexit talks starting next week.

The question on his mind most: Will David Davis remember to bring his notes this time?

The Leavers who come to genuinely debate are a welcome difference of opinion.
The GFs who come to derail are not

ignore the GF and let's continue our debates

Indeed.

I just posted this link on the Politics forum (from which the shills have driven almost all regular posters) but it belongs here too:

www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-parishes-of-fermanagh-and-tyrone-are-unravelling-brexit-1.3201011?mode=amp

Pinning all your hopes on Labour perhaps not a great strategy but it's an interesting historical perspective.

(paywall) Theresa May has tea for two with Shinzo Abe but Japan trade deal is top of agenda

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/shinzo-abe-asks-theresa-may-to-dispel-sense-of-crisis-over-brexit-dc0xzhcjh

Britain faces missing out on a £3.6 billion trade boost unless Theresa May can persuade Japan to strike a post-Brexit deal at least as good as a new EU agreement.

The prime minister arrives in Kyoto today at the start of a three-day visit amid signs of panic among businesses about the progress of negotiations to leave the EU.
Her decision to make Japan her first foreign visit outside Europe reflects its importance as a trading partner.

Before she left last night Mrs May ladled praise on a “like-minded nation with a shared belief in free trade and a rules-based international system”.

Spelling out the main purpose of the trip, she said:
“My discussions with Prime Minister Abe will focus on how we can prepare the ground for an ambitious free-trade agreement after Brexit, based on the EU-Japan agreement.”

Tokyo has taken steps to pre-empt pressure to move on a post-Brexit trade deal with the UK,
with officials saying that concluding an agreement with Brussels remains its priority and lowering expectation of progress.

The Japan-EU deal will boost exports by 34 per cent, according to a forecast by the European Commission.
Given that Britain exported goods and services worth £10.5 billion to Japan last year it faces missing out on a £3.6 billion increase if British business were to receive the same lift as the rest of the EU.

Downing Street officials last night acknowledged that Britain faced a gap between leaving the EU^^
— and its new Japan deal — and forging its own agreement with Tokyo
but said that Mrs May would be pushing for continuity.

Vince Cable, the Lib Dem leader, said:
“This is not having our cake and eating it, it is throwing our cake away.

Yep BCF. Significant I think, that the David Jones account, and many of the extreme right wing SM feeds are 'protected' accounts.

Looks like Britain will be the little kid running after the big kids, wanting to be treated the same.

Brexit is creating creates economic uncertainty, which has already hit business confidence and affected investment planning.

The WTO option puts the whole economy in serious danger and risks a major recession

• and other countries like Argentina may be able to delay the UK entry into the WTO, by objecting to its proposed quotas etc

Brexiters claim sunny uplands, great opportunities further down the line when we can reach our own trade agreements.

Maybe.
However, successful businesses don't normally risk everything on a nebulous "maybe"

Bigly you're a bit of an inspiration, it's making me want to study economics and politics more.

Ah, I think you are super too

Go forth and study! I love studying. Learning stuff is the most fun. I can't wait to get back to uni, I am a bit of a perpetual student.

I really think there is a pattern, you know, woman. I keep thinking that the electorate must be told. I find it very frustrating. I don't meet many Leave voters in real life but I did meet one woman who told me a relative voted 'Leave' for 'patriotic' reasons: immigration (of course) was a threat to national security. I pointed out that a lot of the money/interests behind the Leave campaign may not have had the UK's national security as their driving interest.

So frustrating.

I don't know if new friend is the same as old friend but definitely a similar(-ish) style. Though there could be other reasons for that. Often wondered if old friend was just one person though. There were definite points (when the campaign was at its most frenzied) that old friend seemed to display quite the personality shift, though this was somewhat masked by a very definite style of transcription.

Misti I am genuinely upset about that 'driving away regular posters'. It's a worry. I do wonder if there is something that can be done about that.

I'm still laughing about the comment about not recognising why a lot of women might be on a parenting forum at this precise point in the year suggests need of a better crib sheet.

I just saw that Teresa May has decided she will stay to fight another election (because the last one went so well). Somebody needs to stop her going hill walking. Clearly all that fresh air and scenery is bad for her decision making abilities.

Re The Times article, I suppose if you're being very pedantic, it is May's first visit outside of Europe as PM post the GE but she very publicly held Trump's hand when she went to visit him in the White House

A friend of mine from my last job, a well respected telecoms industry lawyer is involved in some working parties with the Government on what to do post Brexit with telecoms. When I say "with" the government, I use that term loosely. He says the Government and its officials doesn't have a fucking clue what to do and is busy asking the industry to tell them what will happen. They've not thought through the implications at all. why doesn't that surprise me

He also says that the officials are assuming a future more on aligned with the US than the EU. so that's what the 52% voted for. Who knew?

misti, I think from past experience the best thing to do is just ignore them once the novelty wears of and it is clear they are not actually making any worthwhile points. Leavers who come and have a proper discussion are worth talking to, but if there is nothing of any substance there is little point in engaging.

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-latest-news-ubs-bank-frankfurt-eu-trading-hub-european-union-trading-city-london-a7921331.html?amp

cat I can't do the great service to these threads that the likes of red, bigchoc, women, et al. But if I can occasionally raise a smile with a withering comment I feel I've done some service

He also says that the officials are assuming a future more on aligned with the US than the EU.

I think a lot of the Tory party seem to want that. A sort of shared language seems more important to them than a shared history or geography. Or really a lack of labour laws, and no health service as we know it, but they can't say that too loud.

What I find most interesting about that story is that it's been leaked by 4 unnamed sources.

That suggests to me that the government (and I don't mean parliament) is sticking to its policy of freezing out those in business who don'e keep quiet.

These stories keep coming. But they come piecemeal, and not joined together and presented as a whole picture by mainstream media. This allows for the wider electorate to a. keep their heads in the sand and b. dismiss evidence of the serious economic threat of Brexit as 'rumours' (I think of the 'rumour of a hurricane'.)

The fact that Brexit is already trashing the economy is a big, big story. It needs to be presented as such.

"The British team also expressed frustration Wednesday with what they consider to be EU intransigence over the continuation of the European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) scheme — which provides free health cover for Brits holidaying on the Continent — ....the U.K. team is pushing for a system that replicates the existing regime as much as possible, but have come up against what they regard as a narrow insistence on the letter as well as the spirit of EU regulations, which as it stands would deny British citizens EHIC health insurance cover."

www.politico.eu/article/brexit-talks-veer-close-to-collapse/

FFS how is anybody whichever way they voted, not totally embarrassed by this farce? "EU intransigence"?

"We want everything that suits us to stay exactly the same, without having to contribute, and while blaming you for everything that doesn't come up unicorns!"

Hashi You made my day with that.

@ Peregrina

I just posted this link on the Politics forum (from which the shills have driven almost all regular posters) but it belongs here too:

I have certainly stopped looking at the politics threads as there was a particular poster there who was boring me to tears

I only lurk on this thread in this section and dont look at any others beacuse some people are so rude

I hate all this remainer/leaver shit

But that's the message that the Tory Party Government wants us to retain: that it is the EU's intransigence unreasonableness meanness fault that they won't let the UK continue to have its cake and eat it enjoy the benefits of being a member without you know being a member

I'm quite rude, Rufus. I realise that that is falling into the trap. Part of the aim, I think, is to just make any shared space so unpleasant people stop using it. One way to do that is to just be as goady as fuck until everyone is bad-tempered and unpleasant and nothing of substance can be written/read.

But. it is. so. hard.

This thread, thank goodness, works. But I am wondering more and more if there needs to be some sort of sticky, warning people about a deliberate strategy, across social media, so that people have the information to equip them to fight against what is (I believe) a form of censorship.

It goes way beyond GF-ery. (Though, having said that, I think the Feminism threads suffered this sort of thing for a long time.)

prettybird Yes. And I think the long-term aim is to divert the anger for the effects of Brexit from them to the EU. And they are starting now. I know people on this thread are quite aware of this - and I know Kaija predicted this as soon as the Referendum result was announced - but I think the long-term aims of this strategy really need to be spelt out.

This, combined with AB's stated intention to use the ECJ and 'divorce bill' as the flash-points to harness resentment and apply pressure for a ' insane Hard' Brexit means we are going to get a lot of propaganda about the intransigence of the EU.

Meanwhile, we have a 'hacked' account from Johnson's PPS actually trolling -- Bernier.

I just can't see what it will take for the wider public to accept how appalling the Brexiteers are.

Maybe we should have linked document with faqs we can just link to when daily mail sound bites crop up

They want to cut and paste the existing EU agreement! I thought they said the EU were terrible at negotiating trade agreements. Now they want Japan to agree to pretend 'nothing has changed, nothing. has. changed'. So Japan will just accept an agreement which gave a smorgasbord of trading opportunities with a population of night on half a billion to be pasted onto a stand alone country of 65million. With a more limited range of opportunities.

They want(ed) to leave the EU and all who sail in her. Couldn't be soon enough. Yet they really want to shape the EU, and remake it to change to the UK's diktats. For a system they said was practically the devil's work, the bold Brexiteers are incredibly shy on creating or sharing their own credible propositions away from that model of trading.

For a system they said was practically the devil's work, the bold Brexiteers are incredibly shy on creating or sharing their own credible propositions away from that model of trading.

YY Cailleach and not just trading arrangements - apparently everything about being in the EU is terrible, inefficient, corrupt, falling apart, bullying, punishment, we need to distance ourselves as maximally as we can... but at the same time we want to copy and paste pretty much everything about being in the EU .