Westministenders: Transition

[RedToothBrush]

Last thread opener, it was all about the government buzz word being shown to listen at every opportunity.

Now transition is creeping in as people realise that no we can't just do a settlement, arrange a new trade deal with the EU and have a whole host of other deals in place in two years.

Who'd have thought.

We will be getting Brexit because we give in to threats of terrorism. Not quite getting how that takes back control.

But Brexit will be good. It will be glorious. And in the long term we will be better off for it.

Er ok.

That was my thought Misti

Well, quite, Misti, particularly as you can donate anonymously on Just Giving, so people wouldn't now for certain that it was the page owner who'd paid the quid or whatever.

I see Liam Fox is now saying that any transitional deal(s) (I imagine these are the transitional deals that the UK was never going to need) will have to end before 2022.

Funny, we've gone from "no transitional deals" to "the transitional deals we are going to have will need to end by 2022" without a single public discussion.

It must be the UKs powerful sovereign air starting to work it's magic

(is it just me, or does could that picture of Fox hang in the Tate, entitled Man haunted by creeping irrelevance ???)

In other news ... inktank.fi/10-top-self-comforting-strategies-leavers-awaiting-brexit/

Convincing evidence, if more is needed, that kippers never put their money where their mouth is. This is why I am 100% certain that threats of kipper civil unrest if we don't brexit is just hot air. Many people think (with some justification) that the referendum vote should not simply be reversed by parliament/ the govt, but vanishingly few of them would go to any personal trouble to protest about it.

I really, honestly believe that most people who voted UKIP believe we have already left the EU.

But then we never really have known what people who voted Leave really believed anyway. Ask 10 different Leavers, you get 10 different answers (because remember, "It's not just about immigration").

Ask 10 remainers, and you get the same answer 10 times over.

(returning to wolves) ...

cubs, anyone

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0592qb5

You can tell things are going pearshaped by the volume of posts on some of the other threads, from one poster in particular who gives the impression that she must be paid by the word, with a bonus for underlining and overtime for bold text.

Quite. Although if I was paying them, I'd be bloody livid. I don't like criticising grammar etc on forums, but the standard of English in the posts makes it really difficult to understand the arguments put forward. Maybe the arguments aren't the point, though; maybe the intention is to deflect and bore people to the extent they stop posting or to simply dominate the thread so that it looks like a particular viewpoint holds sway.

You can tell things are going pearshaped by the

diminishing responses of rabid Leavers in most areas. Certainly a lot of online discussion seems to be settling down.

The fact that you can't find a single Leaver who will admit to being happy with every aspect of Brexit thus far is probably key.

www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/jeremy-corbyn/news/87767/jeremy-corbyn-insists-uk-cannot-be

Fucking Corbyn.

I think this is the most depressing part of this entirely depressing situation; that even if/when things go tits-up for May and the Tories, there is no better opposition or alternative.

maybe the intention is to deflect and bore people to the extent they stop posting or to simply dominate the thread so that it looks like a particular viewpoint holds sway.

This is one of tbe main strategies used in shilling - drown out sensible comments in torrents of nonsense. Its why the Guardian comments pages are no longer useful.

I don't think the problem is the quality of written English; plenty of people with ESL post on mumsnet, making grammatical errors but remaining comprehensible. It's a lack of coherent ideas which makes posts hard to read.

Wolf society is fascinating and the pups are lovely LH.

Did some reading up on bears yesterday on Misti's recommendation. They were wild in the Pyrenees up until the 1980s. Wolves were last wild in Scotland over 300 years ago. The US is a whole other World in terms of how the land is divided up but even there I found the approach to bear hunting to manage the population difficult. At least I eat venison.

"You can tell things are going pearshaped by the volume of posts on some of the other threads, from one poster in particular who gives the impression that she must be paid by the word, with a bonus for underlining and overtime for bold text."

If it's who I think it is, she's a he 😊

howabout there are wild bears in the Pyrenees, but only one remaining bear of breeding age from the original bear population; the rest (about 30 bears) come from a population reintroduced from Slovenia. Their presence is bitterly disputed, with local greens (this is a very green area in every sense of the word) passionately in favour, farmers furiously against. It could not easily be managed on a strictly local level.

Labour sounds alarm over rollout of universal credit rape clause into N Ireland

The move could place Theresa May on a collision course with the Democratic Unionist party, on whom she is relying on for her minority government to win votes in Westminster.

Labour is opposed to the policy altogether because it claims it will be destructive for low-paid families. But the party is particularly concerned about the impact of the rape clause in Northern Ireland where failure to report a crime is an offence punishable with a prison term.

Melia also questioned the overall two-child tax credit cap, “which is an attack on children, on families and on women” – and said it would be even more acute in Northern Ireland, where abortion has been inaccessible to women who cannot travel to other parts of the UK.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/23/labour-sounds-alarm-universal-credit-rape-clause-northern-ireland

Just had a chuckle. My kids are great: interested in politics and always up for a debate. They like JC. We were just talking about Labour, and DS said, "You've got to admit, Corbyn's definitely moved the ovarian window.'

Love it.

Who is this poster you are talking about? Can someone PM me if you can't say their name on here?

I'd love to know, please.

@robert__harris
^Their preferred UK restore settings year:
Corbyn 1972
Farage 1940
Fox 1913
Rees-Mogg 1588
Duncan Smith 1065
Cash 56 BC^

Another who is intrigued and would like a PM please .

Sapphire what about the Libdems as an alternative ? Why are they not seen as a viable alternative at the moment or in the near future ?

Saw this and thought of you all

Frumpety it's probably been addressed on these threads before and I missed it but the whole LibDem thing puzzles me. I voted for them in the last election, as in my constituency it was the only choice for someone as concerned about this crazy exit as I am.

The support for tuition fees seems to be the main error that lost LibDem support, but surely that historic mistake pales into less significance compared to stopping or minimising this much bigger one?

Nick Clegg has made repeated public apologies about tuition fees.As I understand it Labour introduced fees in the first place and the Conservatives expanded them massively? Wasn't it the LibDems who brokered the repayment system, linking it to how much you earn afterwards? I'd prefer students to have a better deal but I just don't get how so many political mistakes seem to be forgotten and forgiven, and yet this isn't. For example Bojo's previous lies about Darius Guppy and his mistresses pregnancy don't prevent his election and high office, yet other things like tuition fees are remembered for ever. Yet another illogical aspect to this whole catastrophe.

Owen Jones on why he wants to accept "the will of the people"

medium.com/@OwenJones84/why-im-a-remainer-who-accepts-the-eu-referendum-result-d198dbc99c2

Response from Jo Maugham

Sorry, here's the response:

waitingfortax.com/2017/07/24/a-short-response-to-owen-jones/amp/

Divided knew I was just having a blonde moment like Boris and Andrea

Vince still doesn't see the issue with student debt / graduate tax. That is a problem for me.