Westministenders: Transition

[RedToothBrush]

Last thread opener, it was all about the government buzz word being shown to listen at every opportunity.

Now transition is creeping in as people realise that no we can't just do a settlement, arrange a new trade deal with the EU and have a whole host of other deals in place in two years.

Who'd have thought.

We will be getting Brexit because we give in to threats of terrorism. Not quite getting how that takes back control.

But Brexit will be good. It will be glorious. And in the long term we will be better off for it.

Er ok.

"Soon? Oh, hang on..."

Yes, I've noticed this too. Every time that Brexit is in danger of unravelling.

We get some corkers on the Trump threads too. My favourite current poster is one that is named after a Russian town. Subtle.

Oh goody. I'll tell my dd to tell her grandchildren to thank us.

All the BBC stuff is Murdoch related. Keep it in mind.

BBC also have something of a commitment to proper journalism (even if it doesn't always feel like it). They keep the FoxNews and Facebook fake news in check.

Getting angry about amount of pay somewhat misses the point. (The pay gap is however important).

And Digby Jones says we will see benefits of leaving in a 100 years time.....convenient....

That's one of the things I don't understand about this whole bloody mess. IF ( that's a big if) there are any benefits from moving away from our biggest, nearest and known trading partners, those benefits won't be seen for decades.

Yet the majority of the electorate normally make their decisions on a short term basis, 'which party will deliver a budget and services that's best for me?'

Governments too base their policies on lots of short term matters...'what will secure us another term in office?'

So if short term predictions normally dictate voter and gov policy, why has a very long term decision incorporating a massive risk taken such a hold. (Must read a political science type book on populism to see if there's anything about short term vs long term ism.)

Red I am deeply cynical about the motivations for forcing the BBC to publish this data. I feel like the political/news journalists should be paid enough to get the best of the industry, and don't fully understand the comparisons with nurses etc as the money is coming from completely different sources. The pay gap is shocking, though.

And Digby Jones says we will see benefits of leaving in a 100 years time.....convenient....

Interesting new strategy for swerving any responsibility It's rather refreshing compared to the now-tired "Blame the Remoaners/EUBullies" narrative.

I wonder how much the long-termism is a bit of revisionism. Whether people voted thinking short term (money for NHS and all that suddenly appearing, showing the Government whose boss, etc..), but as they realise this is not going to happen they are now claiming long-term thinking. I certainly have no recollection of people talking of short term pain for long term gain during the campaign. It was all unicorns and stardust from day one. It is common practice for people to revise their reasoning and goals rather then accept they made a mistake, a lot of the time they don't even recognise they are doing it.

Bigly that's what my DH said (but less eloquently that you). Well I bring up my kids to admit when they are wrong. I'd rather the Leave advocates did the same, rather than saying well we'll be proved right in 100 years.

Red I am deeply cynical about the motivations for forcing the BBC to publish this data

Agreed, I see this as part of the Government strategy to paint all public sector workers as money grabbing. They did it with doctors, police and fireman when they went on strike. Also with local government workers. It destroys the public trust in the people who work for them and allows the Government to ignore concerns from workers while dismantling the public sector. In this case it has the added bonus of pitting BBC employees against each other making it harder for them to come together as a united whole and fight against the dismantling of the BBC. All the while the Government gets to look shocked about gender paygaps and high pay, while ignoring the wider industry context.

The BBC has a story on the cancelling of rail electrifcation between Cardiff and Swansea. I take two things from this.

One: so much for spending on infrastructure. Obviously the bribe to the DUP has made a dent, but also, is the reality of economic slowdown and reduced tax take dawning?

Two: the BBC story contains a quote - "Professor of Transport for the University of South Wales Stuart Cole said the announcement could prevent companies investing in Swansea. It affects its [Swansea's] image… what people like Siemens, Mitsubishi or any of the international big investors will say is 'if the UK government aren't prepared to invest in high tech for Swansea, why should we?'" Has the UK government realised that international investors won't be bothering with the UK once it's left the EU, so rail links to attract them are neither here nor there, therefore why waste the money?

It's OK everyone! Liam Fox says a trade deal with the EU is going to be really easy. You can all stop worrying now.

Brexit: Liam Fox says securing a UK-EU free trade deal will be 'one of the easiest in human history'
www.independent.co.uk/News/uk/politics/brexit-latest-news-liam-fox-eu-free-trade-deal-uk-secretary-easiest-human-history-david-davis-a7850216.html?amp

I can't tell from the article what his exact wording was - whether he said it will be or should be one of the easiest in human history. Because the latter, when put with his comment that “The only reason we wouldn’t come to a free and open agreement is because politics gets in the way of economics" looks like yet more laying the ground work to blame the EU if we don't get the wonders we were promised before the referendum.

Short term pain for long term gain.

How short?

Oh a century or so

So essentially they're admitting that any fictional benefit will take 100 years to manifest.

Convenient that the timescale involved means that all those culpable of getting us into this clusterfuck will be long dead

Ian Dunt having a go at Guido Fawkes for complaining that academics predicting potential problems ahead have admitted that they don't have any facts. Because the events are in the future

So that's the latest complaint about experts Remoaners: they don't have accurate crystal balls

@IanDunt: Guido is shocked that academics talk about the future as if it hasn't happened yet. https://t.co/oFMWC0A1bi

Presumably 100 years is the lifespan of the average unicorn ?

Oh thank goodness, Fox has it all in hand. And there I was worrying that it's all going to be a huge fuck up.
I am still struggling to believe that this is actually happening, you really couldn't make it up. DS1 has now officially declared himself Irish rather than British (DH is Irish) as he's embarrassed to be British.

Kevin Schofield @ polhomeeditor
Andrea Leadsom just told MPs that Jane Austen is one of our "greatest living authors". (h/t @JoshMay_PH)

Brexit talk press conference (Davis to follow):

Faisal Islam @ FaisalIslam
Barnier says "fundamental divergence" on the rights of EU citizens, cant see how EU law rights enforced other than by ECJ
Barnier, speaking after talks: "David & I and our teams finished second round. Our objective was to start working on substance... "
Barnier: "citizens need legal certainty in withdrawal rights, we can see no other way.. any ref to European rights implies ECJ oversight"
BArnier: Last wk UK recognised existence of obligations beyond withdrawal date as EU recognised. Only with recognition can we work on which"
BArnier: ... a clarification of the UK position is indispensable for us to make sufficient progress [key phrase - ie no trade talks]
BArnier: UK has not yet clarified its position on financial settlement ... EU made public its position on May 29th
Barnier: this week we made clear a detailed legal analysis of this position... financial dossier inseparable from other withdrawal dossiers
Barnier: an orderly withdrawal will not be achieved "through incremental steps"
Barnier: more detailed discussion on IReland needed, to protect North-South cooperation... need to better understand UK continuation of this
Barnier: also agreed UK shd clarify in next session how it intends to maintain the Common Travel Area after leaving EU (ie we haven't yet)
Barnier: this week's experience has shown that we make better progress when our respective positions are clear
Basic Barnier: we can't negotiate, let alone make deals, if UK does not explain or in some cases have a position

Fasial Islam @ FaisalIslam
Davis says he is "encouraged" by talks. "Pleased by progress on citizens rights, identified areas where we agree" - will publish joint paper
Davis on financial settlement - "we both recognise the importance of sorting out responsibilities we have to each other"
Davis: responsibilities "both legal and in spirit of mutual cooperation..robust but constructive" talks.."require flexibility on both sides"
Davis: "to coin a phrase the clock is ticking"... Barnier interjects: "that's true"
...Davis to @skynewsmichelle : last week we published in WMS we are a country that recognises its obligations, I dont recognise "net flow"
BArnier to @skynewsmichelle - only ECJ can interpret EU law, we want our citizens to be continued to be protected

So EU not moving on the EACH and UK don't know what the fuck their position is on basic issues.

In a nutshell.

Couple of interesting Barnier quotes.

EU rights require ECJ. Seems to imply rights given to EU citizens already in the UK beyond the scope of FoM would not need ECJ?

An orderly withdrawal will not be achieved through "incremental steps" - he doesn't seem keen on the Hotel California option?

Barnier: here is our issues in plain English.
DD: words that don't really mean much

Very notable how dd didn't refute that the UK doesn't know what it wants though.

Are our issues FFS
Thanks phone

I'm kind of assuming DD judges it very unwise to say exactly what the UK wants beyond cake and eat it as atm the EU wants to appear extremely robust and so the answer would be NON. Much better to get them to spell out their "reasonable compromises" and work back from there at this stage imho.