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Brexit

Westministenders: Transition

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 11/07/2017 22:02

Last thread opener, it was all about the government buzz word being shown to listen at every opportunity.

Now transition is creeping in as people realise that no we can't just do a settlement, arrange a new trade deal with the EU and have a whole host of other deals in place in two years.

Who'd have thought.

We will be getting Brexit because we give in to threats of terrorism. Not quite getting how that takes back control.

But Brexit will be good. It will be glorious. And in the long term we will be better off for it.

Er ok.

OP posts:
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33
LukeCagesWife · 14/07/2017 13:35

General lurker here but read religiously!

I don't think this article has been posted here - it details the Corbyn/Starmer meeting with Barnier.

Appears to me that the EU side is courting UK anyone-not-Tory for what sounds like civil, grown-up discussions. Or maybe I am being too optimistic that we are slowly moving direction...

I note that it was in the same location as the initial meeting with DD.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/13/jeremy-corbyn-goes-to-brussels-to-set-out-labours-vision-for-brexit

prettybird · 14/07/2017 14:14

Not sure if this has already been posted but it seems appropriate after John Harris' Guardian article:

http://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/the-problem-with-the-english-england-doesn-t-want-to-be-just-another-member-of-a-team-1-4851882?utmsource=Twitter&utmmmedium=SocialIcon&utmmcampaign=inarticleesocialiconss

A few extracts:_
_
"Brexit is the result of an English delusion, a crisis of identity resulting from a failure to come to terms with the loss of empire and the end of its own exceptionalism, argues Cambridge University professor Nicholas Boyle"

....

"Europhobia was shown by the referendum to be a specifically English psychosis, the narcissistic outcome of a specifically English crisis of identity. That crisis has had two phases, roughly two centuries apart."

.....

"Similarly, we could say the English have been unable to recognise how much of their society and its norms was constructed during the imperial period and in order to sustain empire, and have therefore been unable to mourn the empire’s passing or to escape from the compulsion to recreate it."

....

"The psychosis, the willed triumph of illusion over reality revealed by the referendum result, is most damagingly still at work in the determination of the English to cling on to their old exceptional status as anonymous masters of the United Kingdom and of the other nations with which they have to share the Atlantic Archipelago."

.....

"The absence of a separate English parliament reduces the nations granted devolved assemblies to the marginal status the English gave them in the days of glory, as those slightly comical regional variations on a Britishness of which England – invisible and characterless in itself – was therefore alone representative."_

This echoes a book that dh studied as part of his Geography degree in the late 70s: "Internal Colonialism: the Celtic Fringe in British National Development" by Michael Hechter, in which he discussed how (and why) the Empire still exists - it's just now Scotland, Wales and NI Hmm. The book was updated in 1998 with a new intro mentioning devolution in Scotland and Wales. It also at least partially explains why the Scottish and Welsh identities have been retained - because the default "British" one was actually English. _
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0765804751/ref=cmm_swrrcpapiiVcmAzbVRTMSRA

(Sorry for all the underlining: wrote it in notes on my phone and copied and pasted and it's decided to underline Confused)

prettybird · 14/07/2017 14:45

Not sure if yesterday's blog post from Richard North has been posted

http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86537

This quote gives a flavour of it Grin
"Perversely, when Mrs May uses what has become her catch-phrase, "let me be clear", we have learnt that this is the prelude to another bout of obscurity and obfuscation. But when M. Barnier, representative of the secretive and undemocratic European Commission says, "the EU positions are clear", we can take this as a generally accurate statement of the state of play. "

LurkingHusband · 14/07/2017 14:48

I love this fake Brexit nostalgia for the "days of empire"; when the poor were shat on from an even greater height than today.

Mrsmartell08 · 14/07/2017 14:52

The Tories want to take us back to the 1930s.
Ive been saying this this to anyone that will listen for months now.
Sadly they seem to be succeeding

RedToothBrush · 14/07/2017 15:23

Feeling somewhat better today. Thanks all. Off on holiday next week so may or may not be around.

We booked in Jan. DH asked do we pay now or later. I said NOW. I was right and this saved us some pounds. Others will be in for a nasty shock in a couple of weeks.

www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2017/07/13/small-print-of-repeal-bill-creates-unprecedented-new-powers
Small print of repeal bill creates unprecedented new powers for Brexit ministers

Which means everything if you can link it to Brexit. Which is everything.

OP posts:
LurkingHusband · 14/07/2017 15:27

Small print of repeal bill creates unprecedented new powers for Brexit ministers

Powers to be abused long into the future after Brexit is history ...

GreenVelvetandCajmere · 14/07/2017 15:30

I didn't say no childcare til school Hashi. Just no lessons. Which would be better than the Gove agenda.

Funnily enough, I went to the same primary school as him, a few years after

And since when has negative impact on family finances been an issue for this govt in anyway other than to generate sound bites.

I don't fervently want all those things to happen in themselves. I do want the UK to get a bit of a shock when confronted with the real world and reassess its position on the EU- see it for the good deal it actually is.

prettybird · 14/07/2017 15:45

From the Ian Dunt article.....

"Ministers are asking for an awful lot of trust here" - which of course the Government has done soooooo much to earn Hmm

and

The devolved assemblies/parliaments "cannot make changes which would be "inconsistent" with those made in Westminster" .....which begs the question, what is the point of having devolved issues ConfusedHmm

RedToothBrush · 14/07/2017 15:48

Re Nigel and his fear of being lynched.

Is that by Remainers or disgruntled Leavers as they realise they were sold a dud? Only you see we have to leave because otherwise there will be violence you see. Never been much talk about militant Remainers. I also note how badly Farage's approval ratings have dropped since last June. He's lost a considerable amount of support from Leavers...

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Mistigri · 14/07/2017 15:48

when M. Barnier, representative of the secretive and undemocratic European Commission says, "the EU positions are clear", we can take this as a generally accurate statement of the state of play.

Grin

I'm sure that I would despise R North if I ever met him in real life, and he certainly has an ego the size of a planet, but his posts are entertaining and informative. The comments section on his site is even better: full of despairing brexiters who have come to realise that their idols (DD et al) are clueless idiots who are going to drive the U.K. economy off a cliff.

Ho hum. Glad I don't work in the city! It'll be another 18 months before my employer starts laying people off, once the first consignments get stuck at Dover or Felixstowe. What a fucking pointless and destructive charade this is.

LurkingHusband · 14/07/2017 15:57

Re Nigel and his fear of being lynched.... Is that by Remainers or disgruntled Leavers as they realise they were sold a dud?

It would be fittingly appropriate if he had to look over both shoulders for the rest of his life. Although the fact he has two faces rather takes the fun out of it for the rest of us.

Mrsmartell08 · 14/07/2017 16:07

Some of his supporters are bat shit crazy so.....

Mrsmartell08 · 14/07/2017 16:08

....and the US is out. Turns out he isn't such a friend of trump as he thought...
😂😂😂🤔

howabout · 14/07/2017 16:18

In the context of devolved issues a good summary piece from the BBC on the Sewel convention and the effect of the Art 50 case. Repeal Bill wording seems just to be reflecting this.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40608598

Spells out the point I made yesterday.

Just as Westminster was always "Sovereign" even within the EU so it remains within the Devolution settlement.

HashiAsLarry · 14/07/2017 16:39

green my comment was regarding these soundbites being put about with no thought of them linking.

Sound bites never address how you fund the extra childcare if the budget for schools is so bad there's no lessons until 7. Especially in a post brexit world where corporations pay no tax. And how does home devaluation and help that situation at all when you can't afford anything anyway, which slightly higher wages won't help as they likely won't cover the health insurance and extra tax we will all have to pay on top of excessive food prices?

It's nice to have a wish list, but it's gonna a come at a cost sadly which no one is apparently willing to pay Sad

😂 LH those pesky two faces cause a lot of issues

prettybird · 14/07/2017 16:53

LurkingHusband - the NF two faced description creates a vivid image in my mind of Professor Quirrell Grin

It would explain a lot Wink

LurkingHusband · 14/07/2017 17:06

Of course, classically, January takes it's name from Janus, the Greek Roman God that looked backwards (to the old year) and forwards (to the New).

so quite aside from the crushing irony that there is no danger of Nigel Farage looking forwards to anything new, is the additional delight that it must be some twist of fate in the universe which means we can enjoy a schoolboy jape by making our two faced God just "Anus" - or an arsehole to be terminologically exact.

Mrsmartell08 · 14/07/2017 17:18

"Anus"

ClashCityRocker · 14/07/2017 17:41

Well after my big rant about Hmrc and MTD last night.....

Just been announced that MTD won't be mandatory for businesses with turnover under the VAT threshold (85k) until 2020 at the earliest..... Hurrah! They will review the position in 2020. Those with business under the vat threshold but who are voluntarily registered for vat will still be caught for VAT MTD but as they will be already do in TV quarterly returns it shouldn't be too much of an issue.

Interestingly, this was labours position I believe.

Mrsmartell08 · 14/07/2017 17:45

I.think Jeremy might regret sending TM their manifesto ^

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 14/07/2017 18:40

Wasn't there talk of how the government might be sued by businesses who had been given assurances they wouldn't be affected by Brexit before they invested? And we mused that it would need to be written down in order to be evidence used to be in a suit?

Exclusive: Toyota made UK investment decision after Brexit reassurances - sources

mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN19Z1VG

Cherrypi · 14/07/2017 18:43

Anyone listening the BBC brexitcast podcast? I quite like it.

Mrsmartell08 · 14/07/2017 18:45

I can foresee years of legal battles tbh brexit or not
If we go ahead then yes I think businesses and Tory donors would begin litigation if it hit them in the wallet all they care about
If brexit doesn't go ahead the swivel eyed loons of the Tory right and EDL types will begin litigation...to what end I don't know...it was an advisory referendum after all...

SwedishEdith · 14/07/2017 19:28

I'm sure that I would despise R North if I ever met him in real life

His son is as equally charmless. But his despairing anger and bitterness at the cluelessness of the Brexiteers (Leavers were warned) is quite amusing to watch on Twitter. DAG has "reached out" (yuk) to debated Brexit with him.