Leavers - are you happy with the way Brexit is going?

[NameChangerGalore]

Do you think it is being well organised and managed and do you think you will get will the outcome you were hoping for when you voted to leave. I only know three leavers; one thinks it is going ok, one thinks it is a complete load of bollocks and that she was lied to and I don't know what the third thinks as he is a racist tosser and I try and avoid him......

Another take on European countries purchasing power is here.

Consumers draw from their general purchasing power to cover expenses related to eating, living, services, energy, private pensions and insurance as well as other expenditures, such as vacation, mobility and consumer purchases.

UK comes in 10th place, Germany in 9th, France in 12th. All the Scandinavian countries plus Lichtenstein, Switzerland, Luxembourg and Austria come out ahead of the UK.

We have the largest 'buying' capacity in the EU.

Wow. I did take a moment to read this, and speaking as someone with a professional interest in this sort of thing, it is utter bollocks. I am not by the way posting to enlighten Caroline (waste of time) but because a lot of people read this thread and it is worth spelling out why this "but German car manufacturers!" (for her post is but a variation on this tired old theme) argument is wrong.

The UK is a rich country. No one is arguing this. But those riches are not spread out equally. It is also one of the more unequal countries in Europe in terms of personal wealth, partly because of the distorting effect of London and in particular the housing market, partly because unlike some other European countries the UK is allergic to taxing assets and income from assets.

Housing assets form part of personal wealth, but cannot be spent: I have friends in London who are paper millionaires but do ordinary jobs. They are not in the market for BMWs. I am sure that all of us know people in a similar situation - asset rich but cash poor.

The UK does also, of course, have a very large number of individuals with significant spending power, and that makes us an attractive market for the EU. But even German car makers recognise that this economic question has political ramifications. It is of little value to BMW if they keep their UK clients but kill the goose that laid the golden egg (the goose being the EU and the golden egg being tariff and NTB free access to a market of 600 million consumers, plus FTAs with several other large economies).

It goes without saying that the EU wishes to retain easy access to the UK market, but like all things this has a price and the negotiations will determine what price both sides are prepared to pay. So far the EU is playing hard ball (it has previous form, and if this were a tennis tournament the EU would be number one seed) and it is very hard to see what would make it back down, because while losing ready access to a market of 60+m consumers is unattractive, the alternatives are far worse.

Randomly, the GfK reports on 'disposable income' the same point diabolo was trying to make.

Misti, I havent used housing equity, Ive been very very clear by using financial personal wealth.

Both, please go back and read again.

Caroline, whilst I appreciate how you would like the average UK worker to shop around for their pension provision, you can't get around that the average UK pension pot is £50k, which gets you a pension of around £2500 per annum. I think you have under estimated just how screwed the average UK worker will be when it comes to pensions.

"The UK is a rich country. No one is arguing this"

Only London and the South East are rich (in terms of per-capita income). All other UK regions are at, or below, the EU average. Most UK regions are poorer than the former communist East German regions, and than (some) regions in Eastern Europe.

Only London and the South East are rich (in terms of per-capita income).

Yes, this is true, although with the proviso that population densities in the SE mean that this is a big chunk of the total UK population.

The UK has some of the most deprived areas in the EU, as well as the wealthiest.

Misti, I agree, but London and the SE are only a third of the total population.

..... and what of today's news of briefings and leaks in Cabinet..... it doesn't bode well for a united Brexit.

Im certainly not disagreeing about the distribution of wealth, totally agree with that, and I wasnt making any points about how the 'average' person will be impacted.

Its the quantity of personal wealth in the UK we were discussing, in comparison to levels of personal wealth in other EU nations.

Namechanger, its politics. Thats all. You think anything of any actual value would be leaked? What specifically surprised you?

.... well that's easy! The fact that the news, the papers etc are full of the infighting which is fuelling a growing concern about the UK 's ability to organise this Brexit. Am very aware it is politics - and "that's all" doesn't begin to answer it.

Barnier and his professional team are making DD and his team look like incompetent fools...which they are of course.
It's painful to watch
I agree brexit is just a tool for most Tories to get through their trumpesque new laws

DD was described in The Observer as a bar stool bragger this weekend. Seems very apt.

Barnier and his professional team are making DD and his team look like incompetent fools...which they are of course.
It's painful to watch

There is a certain pleasure in watching DD get humiliated, but its obviously disastrous in terms of international reputation and soft powe.

Sorry no apostrophes, ipad really hates the MN site.

news.sky.com/story/downing-street-power-vacuum-has-unleashed-tory-civil-war-10951857
..... this is the kind of news story I am talking about. Can we really expect a cohesive Brexit in this climate?

It appears the leaks etc are coming from Remainers within the cabinet, rather than Brexiters.
Apparently subversion of Brexit, and furthering their own petty agendas are more important than the country.
Pathetic.

Michael Gove ain't no Remainer....

Remainers leaking stories about Hammond because he wants a soft Brexit?

Yeah, riiiiight ...

I still think that Brexit won't happen, they'll be another vote: either pay £100 billion (or similar large sum) and leave or stay in the EU.

Tim Shipman (who's been getting the leaks) has said it's not the Brexiters in the cabinet that are briefing him.

But that doesn't squish neatly into the Remainer good/Brexiter bad box, so no surprise really that the accepted narrative by remoaners is that it's Gove et al.

..... and, of course, it doesn't much matter who is doing the briefing - the reality is that the cabinet are at war and there is no consensus about Brexit.

But Tim Shipman, the Sunday Times political editor, later confirmed that Gove and his allies were nothing to do with his report of the leaks.

That doesn't mean it wasn't other Brexiteers though - I don't imagine that all Brexiteers in the cabinet will be fans of the toad like one.

The two with past form of briefing against Cabinet colleagues are Michael Gove... and Theresa May.