Westministenders: Hey Hey we're the Monkies.

[RedToothBrush]

Welcome to the Listening Parliament.

Have you noticed it yet?

The Three Monkeys of See No Evil, Hear No Evil and Speak No Evil have been in a bit of a fight with didn’t fair well. Its funny how politicians of all shades and levels are desperate to prove just how good they at listening and how they see the problems.

Its quite incredible to think that officials elected to serve the public are even in this position where they are having suddenly think about how they show they are listening. It rather shows up that they have been accustomed to telling the public what to think and what to believe.

What they are still to work out, is that in saying they are listening, they also have to demonstrate they are listening and be credible.

The trouble is, that even though some of the monkeys have been killed off, we still have a lot of monkeys in parliament. 'Monkey say, Monkey do' actions still lurk. Politicians who imitate others without understanding the consequences.

There is no point in listening if you are only listening to one group and don’t understand the consequences of simply repeating the words of others.

Politicians saying they are listening when you can find dozens of incidents where they have said completely the opposition, without having the gumption to explain they have changed their position and without having the grace to explain the evidence that has lead them to change that position rather undermines the idea they are listening.

U-Turns are not a bad thing. U-Turns can show that you were making an error but were wise enough to admit that and why you were wrong. U-Turns are bad when you fail to acknowledge your failings and only do it to chase votes. This is where cynicism creeps in and lack of trust in politicians occurs.

Listening also requires actions to reflect words. There is no good in saying one thing, if your actions don’t reflect that. This is where the Listening Parliament is already failing. And I’m sure we will see it more.

Above all, listening is only part of a conversation. A politician is supposed to be accountable. They are supposed to have their eyes open to evil, not deaf to it and not unwilling to speak inconvenient truths where they recognise the evil.

Any politician who tells you they listen needs to back it up somehow. They need to demonstrate and justify their positions accurately. If they don’t they aren’t listening properly.

Isn’t it funny how it was in Hartlepool that the monkey got hung for being a Frenchman? No one was there to explain differently.

The DUP will only play nice for so long.
Ian paisley jr is a swivel eyed loon and they will NOT be happy on the NI abortion issue....

Teachers face another year of 1% pay cap
Teachers' pay in England and Wales will have to stay within austerity pay limits - with another year of increases restricted to 1%.

It will mean another real-terms pay cut for more than 500,000 teachers in England and Wales.

The pay review body - which was expected to keep pay rises to 1% - has expressed its concern.

The cap on pay, initially of 0% and then 1%, has been in place since 2010, as part of austerity measures.

The National Union of Teachers says that successive years of below-inflation pay deals has seen teachers' pay fall in real terms by 13%.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/40557378

At the same time as they are continuing to cut teachers pay 1 in 4 teachers who joined the profession after 2011 have left.

Nearly a quarter of UK teachers who have qualified since 2011 have left the profession, as new research suggests that staff are working up to 60 hours a week.

Government figures show that of those teachers who qualified between 2011 and 2015, 27,500, or 31 per cent, had already left the job last year.

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/07/10/schools-crisis-point-one-four-new-teachers-hired-since-2011/amp/

Gosh, I wonder if these two things might somehow be connected.

I was listening to Damian Green on R4 this morning - when asked a peripheral question about this, he set up the old 'public sector workers' versus 'tax payers' trope. Apparently I'm not a tax payer but somehow there's still stuff coming out of my pay packet every month...

So was TM hoping she'd get votes from the opposition if she'd asked them to be involved in/taken ownership of policy proposals?

The time for doing that passed a year ago. She had the opportunity then to say that there was nothing in the Referendum which made it a 'First past the post' scenario, and she could have sought out the best brains from all the parties to find the way forward, and come back with proposals before invoking A50. Now, as far as I am concerned, she can stew in her own juices - along with her party, who weren't prepared to challenge her before the unnecessary election, so they can live with it now.

I agree Peregrina. I'm just surprised she asked, given that the chances of a rebuff were quite high. So that later she can blame the Opposition...? 'They wouldn't even help us, and now it's gone all wrong...Boo hoo, their fault.'

I dunno, the whole thing's bizarre. I've no expectation of TM being able to succeed at anything, but I just also have this strong feeling that JC will let me down one day.

Now, as far as I am concerned, she can stew in her own juices - along with her party, who weren't prepared to challenge her before the unnecessary election, so they can live with it now.

I'm glad Corbyn went the route he did today, sharing a platform with the Tory party on Brexit would be electoral suicide

Bigly, surely 31% is nearly a third, not nearly a quarter? Gosh, the DT haven't made a maths error?
I'm not surprised teachers are leaving. Fewer teachers in a school after cuts leads those left behind having to shoulder a greater load.

"the old 'public sector workers' versus 'tax payers' trope."

I'm surprised they've not yet started calling public sector salaries "benefits". It's only a matter of time.

This thread is excellent on Brexit:
twitter.com/EmporersNewC/status/884474494512975872

Hester...exactly how I feel

whenshewas. Belatedly, I missed Wayne of the 'we used to own three thirds of the world' comment but many of the callers seemed content with economic problems because 'it will all turn out ok eventually/in 20 years'.

I'm still hopeful the grown ups will take over continues to cling on

Several Telegraph articles over the last few weeks urged May to involve Labour
BUT as a tactic to split the PLP and / or share the fallout from Brexit.
So, very far from a genuine wish for consensus govt over Brexit.
Just party politics as usual

They are terrified that Labour will be in power for a generation after Brexit.

They called a referendum for party political reasons and now it looks like they have created the only circumstances under which JC could ever be elected PM with a working majority.
Not NuLabour, but a Labour that will tax the wealthy Tory donors, after they will have already been hit by Brexit - hence the panic.

Grifone - excellent and utterly frustrating

because 'it will all turn out ok eventually/in 20 years'.

If I were in my twenties now, I would be furious at this - the best years of your life, when you are getting established as an adult in careers, relationships and finding your way, wasted. When it becomes sorted out, another generation has grown up after you.

But very comforting for my baby grandson, who should just be coming to maturity when the good times start to roll again!

grump I missed Wayne, sounds like he had a real impact - but not the one he wanted.

because 'it will all turn out ok eventually/in 20 years

I need this turned around in 12 years (15 at a push) my eldest is 6. I don't want her starting a career or going off to uni in a U.K. that's still in the economic doldrums.

"the old 'public sector workers' versus 'tax payers' trope

To be fair to that trope I'm about to make myself really unpopular.
Ten years ago it was really tough in the private sector. I had no pay rise at all for years, and the company dh worked for asked all its staff to take a 10% pay cut.
I think some people's public opinion is stuck in the tough times when the financial crisis hit. They don't take into account that private sector pay is rising higher than public sector pay now. They also don't take into account just how stressful a lot of public sector jobs are.

The old divide and conquer, while you can almost hear the ch-ching of the offshore tax havens.

"Only the little people pay taxes" - Leona Helmsley.

@WhenSheWasBad I do agree with everything you've said. You could go further though and say that the collective pressure on public sector workers is greater. Teachers impact kids, doctors save lives, councils make our towns nice places to live (in theory). If these professions suddenly have no people working in them it is a very real immediate crisis. If a large publicly traded company hemorrhages workers left right and centre it is only a crisis for that company and its shareholders. But we seem to live in a society where money matters more than people.

I'm really scratching my head at the economy being better in 20 years. FFS. My whole life would be a waste. I'm a millennial snowflake. Born in 86, always had a job from 16 until I graduated a Russell group uni with a masters in 2009. I was then unemployed for six months, told to take my masters off my CV if I wanted to get a job (thanks Jobcentre) and eventually worked in a shop. Things got better thankfully but I was properly scared. I know we don't get too personal on this thread but if the economic hardship continues until my kids are off working age I'll be a bitter woman indeed.

Growing up I never thought I'd say this (because the 90s were a pretty good time to be a kid and everything up to 2008 was great) but I don't feel like a citizen of the UK and I don't want to live here anymore.

Dh is private sector and hates his job. I'm now wondering if he'll be happy to look abroad.

If May thought Brexit was going well, would she want to share the glory with the Opposition?
No, she's run out of steam. And can foresee trouble passing the 'Great' Repeal Bill. Every little aspect of the whole Brexit process is going to be tortuous and agonising. What a waste of time, energy and effort.

If May thought Brexit was going well, would she want to share the glory with the Opposition?

Golly, do we think she's having doubts about the Sunlit Uplands? She'll be in trouble with Brexiteers then - isn't it the New Treason to Think Negatively, Not Have Faith and Talk Britain Down?

Even staunch Londolnshire Leave voters appear to be changing their minds. The comments are interesting - in response to the 'no one said we would spend the money on the NHS' another one points out that the Referendum itself was couched as 'should' so is just as provisional a promise, a second points out that Gove and Johnson are in Government, with I took it, an inference that they could press for money for the NHS if they had the will to do so.

If a strong Leave area has changed its mind, when are the political parties going to wake up and realise that it's time to cancel Brexit?

That should be Lincolnshire - not the mythical place 'Londolnshire'.

Desperately trying to catch up, got diverted about the Charley Gard case. Bloody awful all of it. Air fresheners? Beyond words all of it. Corbyn loved taking the mick out if May yesterday. Glad he's not going with Tories, he would be mad to!