Westministenders: Hey Hey we're the Monkies.

[RedToothBrush]

Welcome to the Listening Parliament.

Have you noticed it yet?

The Three Monkeys of See No Evil, Hear No Evil and Speak No Evil have been in a bit of a fight with didn’t fair well. Its funny how politicians of all shades and levels are desperate to prove just how good they at listening and how they see the problems.

Its quite incredible to think that officials elected to serve the public are even in this position where they are having suddenly think about how they show they are listening. It rather shows up that they have been accustomed to telling the public what to think and what to believe.

What they are still to work out, is that in saying they are listening, they also have to demonstrate they are listening and be credible.

The trouble is, that even though some of the monkeys have been killed off, we still have a lot of monkeys in parliament. 'Monkey say, Monkey do' actions still lurk. Politicians who imitate others without understanding the consequences.

There is no point in listening if you are only listening to one group and don’t understand the consequences of simply repeating the words of others.

Politicians saying they are listening when you can find dozens of incidents where they have said completely the opposition, without having the gumption to explain they have changed their position and without having the grace to explain the evidence that has lead them to change that position rather undermines the idea they are listening.

U-Turns are not a bad thing. U-Turns can show that you were making an error but were wise enough to admit that and why you were wrong. U-Turns are bad when you fail to acknowledge your failings and only do it to chase votes. This is where cynicism creeps in and lack of trust in politicians occurs.

Listening also requires actions to reflect words. There is no good in saying one thing, if your actions don’t reflect that. This is where the Listening Parliament is already failing. And I’m sure we will see it more.

Above all, listening is only part of a conversation. A politician is supposed to be accountable. They are supposed to have their eyes open to evil, not deaf to it and not unwilling to speak inconvenient truths where they recognise the evil.

Any politician who tells you they listen needs to back it up somehow. They need to demonstrate and justify their positions accurately. If they don’t they aren’t listening properly.

Isn’t it funny how it was in Hartlepool that the monkey got hung for being a Frenchman? No one was there to explain differently.

Lala The Japanese are very polite and respectful towards others. However in Asia generally it would actually be regarded as disrespectful not to be very direct and set out your position very clearly, aggressively even, in any sort of business discussion / negotiation. Otherwise you are not giving the other party the respect of a tough but fair exchange.

In street markets I have seen local people spit after westerners who, as the saw it, insulted them by paying the asking price.

Ha ha I'm useless at haggling, I imagine there'd be a flowing river of saliva in my wake at most Asian street markets (and potentially other scenarios too)

Japan making a pitch for East Asian Visas in preference to FoM of Europeans.

A bit of background on the Euratom legal position - all looks like smoke and mirrors to give "soft" Brexit an easy win as subsidiary Treaty post Brexit looks like the inevitable easy answer.

eulawanalysis.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/the-uk-brexits-euratom-legal-framework.html

howabout

the article is 6 months old, and may not reflect the current political situation ....

Guy Verhofstadt & a crossparty MEP group:
Improve Brexit offer to EU citizens, or we’ll (EU Parliament) veto the deal

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/09/brexit-offer-eu-citzens-veto-british-porposal-european-parliament

“Brexit negotiations must be completed by 30 March 2019;
we will not support any extension to this deadline,
because it would require the UK to hold European elections in May 2019.
That is simply unthinkable.
....
The European Union has a common mission to
extend, enhance and expand rights, not reduce them.
We will never endorse their retroactive removal.

The European parliament will reserve its right to reject any agreement that treats EU citizens, regardless of their nationality, less favourably than they are at present.

This is a question of the basic fundamental rights and values that are at the heart of the European project.”

Brexit negotiations must be completed by 30 March 2019

Which means put to the member states must start ratifying October 2018 ?

Yes, Oct 2018.
This deadline was always likely, unless the negotiations were progressing well and just needed more time to nail down the details.

The only possible deal in time always was an off-the-shelf job, i.e. EEA / EFTA, but tweaked to add services.

Current situation is that May has no idea what to do and is even asking Corbyn for help.
DD is only likely to face reality, if ever, in early 2019, i.e. too late to ratify a deal.

So, as I posted, I expect time to run out and then either a disorderly Brexit or a disorderly Remain

Anne Marie Morris has whip withdrawn ...

Part of me is starting to wonder if Mays overtures are part of a design that will result in all UK political parties sharing a platform saying:

"Look, we know what 'the will of the people' is, but somethings are just not possible." no matter who you vote for

There are stranger things than are dreamt of in your philosophy ...

Hmmm

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/10/australia-ready-to-do-post-brexit-trade-deal-but-eu-comes-first

I think mays overtures are designed to ensure all parties are tarnished with the brexit mess
And JC is stupid enough to fall for it

I think mays overtures are designed to ensure all parties are tarnished with the brexit mess. And JC is stupid enough to fall for it

I do worry that JC is going to use Brexit to push his own vision for the UK

According to the BBC news at 6, Corbyn gave TM short shrift: let us form a minority government or call another election. She's looking ever-more desperate.

And JC is stupid enough to fall for it

Except in this case it seems he hasn't. He offered her a copy of the labour manifesto and suggested she hold another election of the conservatives didn't feel up to the job.

Is that going to happen though?

Absolutely, admit you can't govern or call for a vote of no confidence and we'll support that.

I think that was the Arkell vs Pressdram response :)

I never felt too strongly about the Conservatives before. Never liked their ideology, but didn't think to the extent that they were complete sh*ts. I think the exposure to the fact they exist to support the Conservative party has made me dislike them intensely. Except Anna Soubry and Andrew Tyrie and Kenneth Clarke. Probably wouldn't agree with them on much, but don't think they are utter arseholes.

Take Fallon. His shtick is the solid, respectable, trustworthy fellow. It showed him up when he just jumped in to condemn a statement he thought was by JC and quickly equivocated to say 'Oh, I'd have to know the context' (roughly) when he was told it was by Johnson.

Anna soubry is one of the worst imo (and fairly local to me)
She is a total opportunist in the vein of bojo

Oh, Mrs. I must admit I only know her from her stance on Brexit.

Don't mind Ken Clarke.
IDS and Mogg are just despicable human beings.
May has gone behind parody...I think she was starting to believe that she was the "new thatcher".

Anna soubry is one of the worst imo (and fairly local to me)

I've always quite liked her. Admittedly everything I've heard from her is Brexit related.

Someone probably pasted this. Soz, if so. Cannot stand Gove. I wouldn't trust him at all. I don't know if he is working the interests of Murdoch or those of the country he is in the cabinet to serve. I suspect which one, but that is just my opinion.

www.joe.co.uk/comment/comment-why-michael-goves-whats-in-it-for-me-doctrine-is-the-only-way-forward-133184

I've always quite liked Anna Soubry. I don't always agree with her, but she tends to stick to her guns even if it's at odds with the party line. She's also one of the few MPs who've actually given a reason for backing brexit whilst being a hardened remainer

So was TM hoping she'd get votes from the opposition if she'd asked them to be involved in/taken ownership of policy proposals? She can probably see a time when she can't pass bills because her majority won't withstand any Tory rebels abstaining.